Mark's Blog

Most people really need T3 in addition to T4. T3 works with sex hormones.
Thyroid drugs with T3 are thyrolar and Armour. If your doctor won't give
you T3 then ask him for a FREE T3 test or find someone who is more
receptive.
Gracia

The endocrine system runs on fat and protein. You need good fats and high
quality protein to get your metabolism going. Mary Shomon has a good
article about fats with Udo Erasmus. www.thyroid.about.com I think you
should get enough calories, don't exercise too much, and eat whole eggs!
Not advice you hear everyday-- imo we have screwed up our endocrine systems
with bad fats and processed food, and now we have forgotten how to eat or
live.
Gracia

Hello-
I'm extremely frustrated with not seeing results with
weight loss. I'm taking 3 grains of Armour (180 mg)
and I am very strict about my diet and exercise
routine. I am 5'3 and eat about 1500 calories per
day, and exercise 1 to 2 hours every day (elliptical
trainer, walking, some kickboxing & I lift weights 40
min 3 dys/wk.) I eat a couple pieces of fruit, a
couple servings of whole grains (mostly oatmeal),
plain yogurt, cottage cheese (fat-free or low-fat),
non-dairy/non-soy low-fat cheese, egg-whites, a small
serving of nuts/seeds, and the rest are low-starch
vegetables. I'm vegetarian at the moment, so I don't
eat any fish or chicken, however, I'm so frustrated at
this point, that I would consider eating these if it
will help. I need to lose 15 pounds to be at the
weight I felt most comfortable at.
Any suggestions? I think I would feel deprived with
less calories. Do I need to exercise more or change
my diet? I just feel so hopeless! I thought that the
high dose of Armour would help, but I still feel like
I have a VERY sluggish metabolism. I get very
depressed dealing with all of this, especially when I
see very slim women eating cake, hamburgers, etc. Any
help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Bianca

Hey everyone.
I have hypo and take 75mcgs levoxyl daily. Before I was diagnosed, I
had a barely there sex drive. I hoped that getting my hormones
balanced would fix that, but it didn't. My relationship with my
boyfriend is really suffering because of this and I'd really
appreciate any tips, medicinal or otherwise. (I should mention that
I'm female.) Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
~Jenny

Either stress or age can be the reason for your sudden thyroid
insufficiency. Weight gain does not automatically go with
hypothyroidism . . . it didn't for me. Did your doctor mention
Hashimoto's thyroiditis to you? If you have Hashi's (as I do) then
there's a good chance that your thyroid will progressively lose more
of its function over time. What would possibly be wrong with taking
thyroxin? I've been taking it daily for over 20 years and have found
it very easy to live with. I just have to make sure that I don't run
out.
There are certain foods you might want to avoid since they are
goitrogenic. Go to

Renee,
It's the protein in soy that's goitrogenic, not the fat. Soybean oil
is not a problem since it contains none of the soy protein.
Celeste

Hi All - I've just found out that I have low thyroid levels - very
slightly I think but will know more when I see the doctor in a few
days. Briefly, I'm a bit shocked although it runs in the family my
sister and 2 children take thyroxin. I am 50 so assume it is age
related. What are the symptoms - I may have put on a little bit of
weight but am still slim. I have had an incredible amount of stress
over the past 7 or 8 months. Can it caused by stress? I have
recently had a virus (flu like - now recovered and back at work)
other than that I am fit (work out in the gym), eat well, have a
daughter of 11. I do feel tired but put that down to lifestyle and
recent stress. Is it possible that this is temporary and if not can
it be treated using alternative methods as I am reluctant to embark
on a lifetime of thyroxin. Help - would be grateful for any advice

??..............How can a person with hypothyroid take q-10 when it
is made from soybean oil? I went looking at some ( Wal-Mart) and was
shocked that has the soybean oil in it.
Any suggestions??
Renee

On normal thyroxin I get this really bad allergy like
hayfever which I
have never had before. My lungs become very itchy. I
have also noticed
that my neck has become so stiff and also my wrists
.Cramps in my
Calves muscles and at night or when not moving I get
pins and needles in my
arms legs.
are these all signs of Hypo??
Yes.. thats me alright, I have an appointment to get
re-evaluated.. Its been about 15 years since I've seen
an endo, basic health doesn't seem to think I need
one, well now that I'm paying for it out of pocket I
am going. LOL...

Hi All,
I have an appointment with my Dr. next week and I was wondering if I could
engage your help. Please bear in mind I am in the UK so a lot of the drugs that
you use in the USA are not available here.
I am just trying to convert to Armour but as mentioned before its like Rocket
fuel for me. I can only tolerate 50 mcr of normal Thyroxin T4 and I/2 of one 1/2
a grain of Armour. i.e. 1/4 of a grain...
On normal thyroxin I get this really bad allergy like hayfever which I have
never had before. My lungs become very itchy. I have also noticed that my neck
has become so stiff and also my wrists .Cramps in my Calves muscles and at night
or when not moving I get pins and needles in my arms legs.
are these all signs of Hypo??
When taking my armour combo I get some relief of my symptoms but then at night
it comes on again. Weight gain is also a problem.
I will be posting this on the other board so please excuse duplication.
Is there in Glands in the base of the skull where your neck is this feels like a
swelling there.
many regards
John C
Ps I have no Thyroid gland due to surgery for Amiodarone effects.

HELLO TO YOU ALL: Thanks a lot for your great inspiration u know boredom is
my enemy i hate my life when I am bored I wouldlike to thank you and yeah
you are right I will engage in forums, diet-forums, PC game forums, I will
also try to write a book called "The impact of our bodies in the Will to
Power" or "The importance of our health in the will to power" it would be
for leaders, political leaders who want to become supermen or dictators.
I am a nietzschean. oh well thanks a gain
Juan Carlos Cruz
From: Sarah Rahne <sararahne@...

juan Hi my name is heather. I hate excessive excerise to but i love to go to
the park with my 3 children and casually walk around the 1/4 mile path it has
around the park. and do that a few times a day and i lost and axcess of 11 lbs
in 2 months. cool huh. not a lot of sweat and meet new people and it is light
excersise. and fun. don't hurt to much afterward either. other then that cut
back on any second helpings eat special k with 1% milk for breakfast some fruit
cocktail for lunch and a regular dinner just no second helpings for dinner. and
you will have it made. Also ask you doc about a water pill a lot of some of your
excess weight is due in part to water. Drink the water you need daily for it
flushes your system of all the fatty acids that have a tendency to build up
...stay healthy
Heather
Juan Carlos <juancarloscruz@...
HELLO ALL: I have a little problem i think i have gained some weight last
week coz u see my problem is that I don't work and I am just studying which
means that my day goes so slow, I hate this but i just need some tips on
what can I do to lose about 6 lbs that I need to lose.
I won't exercise too much becuase exercising so much makes it worst for me
coz it gives me pain, heat, thirst, anxiety and it makes me more anxiouse
instead of better.
So NO NO, NO EXCESS OF EXERCISE FOR ME, it makes me worst, can you give me
any tip on what can I do to lose weight faster? I need to lose at about a
rate of 3 lbs a week, tell me what can I do to kill boredom while standing
hunger??
Smoke a cigarette, coffee? play PC games anything? I feel so inferior,
This is my info: 6'1" 175 I need to be at 165 as soon as possible but I am
happy for now if i am at 170 so tell me what can I do to kill this 5 lbs ASP
(as soon as possible)
Thankx all and I appreciate your tips i need tips
Juan Carlos
PS: DO NO TELL ME TO EXERCISE MORE BECAUSE IT MAKES ME WORST
i walk 25 minutes (3-5 times/week) if i exercise more i gain weight

Thelma,
Did you ask your doctor what the results were for free T3 and free
T4? Or did s/he even order those tests? What tests (other than TSH)
is your doctor basing his/her decision to change your dosage on?
Best wishes,
Celeste

HELLO ALL: I have a little problem i think i have gained some weight last
week coz u see my problem is that I don't work and I am just studying which
means that my day goes so slow, I hate this but i just need some tips on
what can I do to lose about 6 lbs that I need to lose.
I won't exercise too much becuase exercising so much makes it worst for me
coz it gives me pain, heat, thirst, anxiety and it makes me more anxiouse
instead of better.
So NO NO, NO EXCESS OF EXERCISE FOR ME, it makes me worst, can you give me
any tip on what can I do to lose weight faster? I need to lose at about a
rate of 3 lbs a week, tell me what can I do to kill boredom while standing
hunger??
Smoke a cigarette, coffee? play PC games anything? I feel so inferior,
This is my info: 6'1" 175 I need to be at 165 as soon as possible but I am
happy for now if i am at 170 so tell me what can I do to kill this 5 lbs ASP
(as soon as possible)
Thankx all and I appreciate your tips i need tips
Juan Carlos
PS: DO NO TELL ME TO EXERCISE MORE BECAUSE IT MAKES ME WORST
i walk 25 minutes (3-5 times/week) if i exercise more i gain weight

I am so confused, I could spit. I have been hypo all my life with
the exception of too much synthroid. Right now my TSH is .13 The
Doc. has lowered my dose but I just went in the toilet. If my tsh is
high? and they lowered the dose why did I crash? Someone please tell
me if .13 is high or low also what is the normal range for a tsh level
Thyroid Thelma

Thelma,
.13 is on the low side, but it's all about how you feel at whatever level.
The range that's pretty universal is .5 to 5.5, so...... it is kind of low,
but how do you feel?
Karen
Someone please tell me if .13 is high or low also what is the normal range
for a tsh level
Thyroid Thelma

Fortunately, this is not true. Synthroid and other thyroid
medications do not put women at any additional risk for osteoporosis.
See http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa061100a.htm for the
details and if you are menopausal please DO get a bone density test.
There are a lot of causes for osteoporosis whether you are taking
thyroid hormone or not.
Best wishes,
Celeste

thanks for the info - i didnt know either. this might be a very stupid
question to ask but is it just synthroid or all thyroid meds? thanks

Take a look at http://www.buywobenzym.com and read some of the
articles. I don't take it for digestion, but for tissue repair.
Celeste

I have been taking synthroid for about 15 years, maybe longer. I
have been reading that synthroid can contribute to osteoporosis and
asked my doctor about it. She said she never heard about it!!! and
that taking synthroid is just like having your own body make it. (
not true) Nevertheless, I worried and took it upon myself to have a
bone density test and I DO have osteoporosis. So ladies, if you are
past menopause, get yourself up and get the bone density test before
it is too late. I wish someone would have told me a long time ago.

Yes, fatigue, puffy eyes, depression.

Hi There!!
I was wondering?? Did you have any symptoms when you were off your
meds?? Just wondering...
Debbie

I recently went on vacation and forgot to take my levoxyl. I have
been off it for over a week. I was taking 112 mcg daily. Would it
hurt to resume the same dose now that I'm back?

Can anyone suggest good digestive enzyme supplement?
thanks.

In a message dated 6/7/2002 5:06:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
louise_d_49009@... writes:
Louise,
Sounds very much like <A HREF="http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com"
Thyroid Syndrome</A
yours. I was getting no better on the traditional medicine and getting no
willingness or understanding from a doc to try anything else for the trouble
of going to him. The Wilson's approach absolutely worked for me! Maybe your
new DO would be open minded enough for you to ask him about it. With
Wilson's the thyroid gland is working well or pretty well; the problem lies
with improper or non-conversion of T4 to the active T3 in other organs and
tissues of the body. The medicine helps your body clear out the unconverted
T4 and RT3 so the thyroid can do its job in peace, supported by a good
nutrition program, proper hormone supplementation, exercise, etc. Check out
the website and see what you think. Dont' be discouraged if your doc says he
doesn't believe in it or it's a hoax; new therapies sometimes take time to
become accepted into the mainstream--like when doctors resisted the washing
of their hands between doing autopsies and delivering babies!
Let us know how you're doing and what you find is working for you!
Linda in LA

I have stormed my home town to find a Dr. who would listen to me.
Whenever I told them I was still having symptoms, they all gave me
the same blank dumb stare. All the time getting worse and worse. I
don't know about you but I go to the Dr. to feel better not worse.
The reason I feel so bad is because I'm depressed, says the Doc's.
Does depression cause a low body temperature, dry skin, hair that
looks like a haystack, shortness of breath and a tightness in the
chest, lousy consentration, forgetfulness (yea, depression does this
too.), poor imune system. I was so fatigued I thought I was dying.
Why are these medical people so stupid. I was shocked. My sister
goes to a DO. a two hour drive from here. He said that one side of
my thyroid was working at 50% and the other side was ok. He put me
on Thyrolar and progesterone. I have been on this new hormone for
one day and feel better already. I am looking forward to the next
few days. If I see another Dr. it will be too soon. Feedback welcome

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Karen,
I'm glad to hear that you are doing so well with your pregnancy. I
think that's just terrific! It's also quite the opposite of what my
experience with pregnancy has been. I've always felt a lot worse when
pregnant, but I also have adenomyosis so that could have been the
reason for that.
Best wishes,
Celeste

My experience with both of my boys was a lot
different. My levels kept going up and up, I had to
have blood drawn twice weekly to make sure I was ok
and my dose was doubled every other week. I asked the
doc if he knew what he was doing and he said no not
really and had gotten a second opion and kept getting
it. So he was smart in getting and Endo involved. I
have nst's at 20 weeks every week twice a week until
delivery. He wanted to make sure the baby was growing
the right way. I was miserable, sick and exhausted.
Then again maybe having two kids so close and in the
heat of the summer had something to do with it. I
don't know if that helps but have you had a NST (non
stress test) they measure you and your baby's heart
rate, your blood preassure and what not. I heard
(don't take it to be true) that sometimes the hormone
you need comes from the baby, I could be way wrong on
that but that is what some one told me once a long
time ago and I don't remember who where or when.

Hello everyone,
I am 23 weeks pregnant and before I got preg. my dr. was going to test my
adrenals. She thought that I had estrogen dominance b/c all of my thryoid
levels were great and I was still not losing weight despite a good diet and
exercise regimin (she knew I wasn't lying b/c she felt the muscles in my
legs). Anyway, she didn't end up testing me b/c I got pregnant and she said
that she couldn't get an accurate finding until after I gave birth. So, now
that I am pregnant, I feel so much better than before. I'm not losing
weight, but I've only gained 12 lbs. which isn't too bad. I'm thinking that
I'm feeling better b/c I'm producing more progesterone while pregnant and
maybe I really was deficient before. People keep telling me that I've lost
weight (even though I've really gained - but I and they think it may be all
baby related).
Can anyone shed any light on this??? Is there any other reason that
hypothyroids would feel better while pregnant (I was led to believe that my
thyroid levels would go up). Oh yeah, my TSH has gone from 2.3 before
pregnancy to 1.1 a few weeks ago. Isn't that unusual? I would appreciate
ANY feedback on this - I'm just confused, but at least it's in a good way.
sorry for the length of this.
Karen

New site with young boys and hot pics into diferent fetish under
http://www.ygfpictures.com
No password required.

In a message dated 6/6/2002 12:06:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sararahne@... writes:
Dear Sarah,
Here are some ideas I've used to build up my immune system and return to
health. Good luck! I know this is a lot of information; I've been working
on this for the past ten years, so don't feel you have to do everything or
any of it in the next week! But if something calls to you, see if you can do
it or something like it in one form or another. I can give you links to
things like NAET, NLP,and stuff if you're interested. Good luck and good
health! Linda in LA
1. Changed my diet to include more fresh vegetables, one fresh fruit/day,
more fish, no foods with flour, more whole grains, more balance between
protein/carbs in each meal so I wasn't hungry or snacking all day.
2. NAET (Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Technique) for getting rid of
massive allergies. The procedure is quick, inexpensive, painless, and you
can often find chiros or family counselors who do it cheaply. Eliminating as
many allergies as you can helps to calm down the nervous system. You may
think you don't have allergies because you're not sneezing. Did you know
indigestion could be a form of allergy? Or headache or sinusitis, or
constipation, or joint pain, or low back ache, or mental fogginess, or.....
3. Meditation and conscious daily ritual to relax and calm down the nervous
system. For myself, I worked with a homeopath whose main focus was for me to
come understand how to relax my nervous system with each new remedy and
remedy state she presecribed. Homeopathy may not be for everyone since it
requires a lot of dedication and inner personal work. Nor is the idea that
you can consciously relax the nervous system something everyone will believe
is important, but IMO, a stressed or hyper immune system derives from a
stressed or hyper nervous system and relaxing one can help relax the other.
The four years I spent studying with a homeopath really set me on the road to
healing myself rather than just presenting mfyself at a doctor's office and
demanding he/she take care of me.
4. Visualization and relaxed imagining of my desired outcome. Okay, this
may sound weird, but I find I have always made MAJOR progress or discovered
important elements that contributed to my healing after periods of time when
I spent a little extra effort trying to recall a time of well being for me or
trying to imagine what it would feel like to feel well. I usually do this in
short 15-20 minute sessions over the course of a week or two, relaxing well
beforehand, and then letting go of any feeling of disappointment at how I'm
feeling now. What I want to do is give my body, mind, subconscious, nervous
system, etc. a blueprint of where I am wanting to go so I will recognize it
when I find it in real life. I try to pick times to do this imagineering
when I'm already feeling kind of happy or unstressed--like when I sit in the
hot tub at night under the stars. I try to practice conjuring a feeling in
myself for just a few minutes a day for several days running (it's effective
when repeated rather than just a one-off deal) of what it would be like, feel
like, smell like, taste like, sound like, move like to feel well in my

Gracia,
The symptoms Renee describes indicate hyperthyroidism (not hypo). Why
would you think she would need more thyroid hormone instead of less?
That would only make her more hyper.
Celeste

Where do I start in building up my imune system? Is
there anything that can help. I'm trying to make
sense of everything that is being posted but some of
it is just way over my head of comprehension.
any and all input is helpful.
Thanks

Hi,
Thanks for the various responses to my messages today.
I am really
hoping that the doctor I see July 1 will prescribe
Armour thyroid.
Celeste asked me why I thought non-prescription
thyroid glandular
would contain thyroid hormones and here's what the
website says
for the product I have been using:
Question: Does your thyroid product
really
contain any hormones or have they
been
removed, and how is it made?
Answer: Our product is WHOLE desiccated
glandular and contains every component that is
common to a healthy thyroid gland. We don't add
or
remove anything. To retain the valuable
components, the select glands from livestock
already designated for the food industry are
removed and freeze dried by a major US laboratory.
The
freeze drying process concentrates and
preserves the active components of the gland.

Jim,
If the glandulars had any thyroid hormone in them it would be illegal
to sell them without a prescription. That's the difference. Armour
thyroid contains thyroid hormone. The glandulars do not. Why would
you think that they do?
Celeste

Celeste,
Could you please elaborate on your comment that "glandulars may provide
some nutritional support, but they do not contain any thyroid hormones."
I take a glandular that is basically dessicated cow thyroid gland, which I
was under the impression was essentially the same as the Armour
thyroid prescription product - except the Armour requires a prescription
and the health food store version does not.
If I am misinformed about this, how does Armour thyroid differ from
health food store dissicated cow thyroid glandular?
Thanks, Jim

Jim,
Until you get to see your doctor and have some blood tests done it
wouldn't be possible to say. You might need medication for your
thyroid. The glandulars may provide some nutritional support, but
they do not contain any thyroid hormones. If you need thyroid hormone
then your doctor will have to prescribe it for you and you won't have
any further improvement until you start taking it.
Best wishes for excellent health,
Celeste

In a message dated 6/5/2002 11:46:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nabie67@... writes:
Renee,
I know that increased life stress will often throw off the delicate balance
of thyroid, medicine, T4 to T3 conversion. At least this is what happens to
me. Traveling, change of climate, change of altitude (above 8000 ft), dental
work, additional medication, trauma with my kids. All those things can and
sometimes do wreak havoc with my thyroid/medicine balance.
As for the alternating meds, the one question I would ask would be "is it
working for you?" Are you feeling better? If so, and it continues, then it
sounds like your doc is on to something! If it helps only temporarily, then
you may have to figure out something else, but wait until or if that happens
to worry! :0
Glad to hear you're doing better!
Linda in LA

For me, thyroid was only part of the problem. You might also want to look
into food/chemical intolerances. I highly recommend reading the book 'Fed
Up' by Sue Dengate and doing her elimination diet.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~sdengate/
The book is aimed at parents who are looking for solutions for problem
kids. However, the info and the diet is the best I have seen in my 9 years
of research into chronic fatigue and all of the associated symptoms. She
has special sections for adults who are doing the diet. She also mentions
in her book that most adults who see the change in their kids also do this
diet and get similar results for themselves. It should help most people
with fatigue/health/memory/mind problems. I believe it is based on the
diet proposed by the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Australia.
I hope this helps.
Katrina.

Hi folks,
Lately, I have become a bit discouraged. As I write, I have bronchitis -
something
that has been a nearly constant "friend" of mine since last September.
It was about that time that my health took a nosedive. At the time I didn't
realize
it, but I was getting all the classic symptoms of low thyroid function -
frequent
viral infections, unexplained weight gain, fatigue, brain fog, low body temp,
swelling in my neck, hoarse voice, etc.
I had been eating a LOT of soy products because I am a vegetarian and began
to explore all of the new "meat substitute" products made of soy.
Since I don't really have much faith in conventional medicine to solve thyroid
problems, I began a search to find a "holistic" doctor who would treat me and
who
would be covered by my HMO insurance. After several weeks, I found one
45 miles away. But, she was on maternity leave and won't be back until July 1
(when I have an appointment with her).
I began to do research about hypothyroid and immediately got off soy products.
Then, I bought some animal thyroid glandular at a health food store and have
been
taking it for close to two months.
I have seen a few positive "signs" - my temperature is normal, the swelling is
gone
in my neck, the hoarseness is gone, allergies are a little bit better.
However.... my immunity is still very weak, I still have fatigue and brain fog,
I
have not lost any weight (though I haven't gained any more), I still deal with
some anxiety and occassional mild to moderate depression.
After two months on the thyroid glandular and off the soy, am I expecting too
much too soon?
Any responses are appreciated.
Jim

Hi all,
I have a question...
I recently went to Florida for a week and came back. Since I came
back, I've had no energy and dare to say I had been depressed( be
aware that my dog of 5 years was hit by a car only days prior to our
trip to Florida).
My husband and myself got tired of my "spaciness" and lethargy, so I
went back to the endo and told him what was going on. What was
happening was I was not able to get to sleep at night( taking my meds
in the a.m.)until 2 or 3 if lucky, and then waking up dead tired and
thus the rest of my day was like that. Well, I thought at first, it
was just me being tired from the trip but it didn't go away. My hair
seems to be falling out more than it ever has been( which is very
aggravating) and I felt so jumpy and nervous( hence the no sleeping
at night).
My endo said he would check my blood levels again. Both he and I
thought my thyroid( I have Hashimoto's) was slowly and surely konking
out. Well, what do you know...........it wasn't. My TSH was 1.1 and
my T4 was 1.9. It appears my thyroid is kicking in really well LOL!
Now he's mixed up my meds.
I now am supposed to alternate days of taking my meds- one day .075
mg's and then .050 mg's ) I just find this a VERY strange way of
taking medecine. I actually didn't take my med one day and only then
did I start to feel better. The next day I took a half of .075. Now
things are pretty good. I feel much better.
Has this ever happened to anyone here? Does this sound like a normal
approach to it?
Thoughts please.
Renee P.

Dale,
Your explanation is not quite right. Primarily TSH stimulates
production and release of both T4 (thyroxin) and T3 (triiodothyronine)
by the thyroid gland. Most (about 80%) of the body's T3, however, is
manufactured outside of the thyroid gland in other tissues on an
as-needed basis. This is why T4 is important. The body uses T4 to make
T3 by removing an iodine molecule from the T4. Now if your body is
unable to make T3 out of T4 then that is another problem altogether.
It's not a problem with the thyroid gland itself and taking T4 won't
fix that problem. That's why it's also important to measure both T3
and T4 levels in the blood. The results of the TSH test show only a
part of the whole thyroid function picture.
Best wishes,
Celeste

yelling to your thyroid to do its job (create T3 hormone). When your
thyroid doesn't respond, your body keeps yelling (by creating more
TSH). The less function your thyroid has and the longer the condition
has persisted, the higher the TSH value might be.
not a danger of itself -- what really causes your trouble is the lack
of T3 in your system that in turn regulates other things. If you do
something to restore thyroid function or to add the T3 to your system
(like taking synthroid -- which is really T4, but converts readily to
T3) then the body stops yelling at the thyroid and the TSH value comes
down.

To All,
The AP today has an interesting article about JAMA and the amount of bias
and/or obfuscation in their articles. Thankfully, the JAMA is looking into
policing this itself! Nevertheless, what I find particularly interesting is
the percentage of times that drug company links to drug studies are not
disclosed in articles as well as the likelihood of articles to downplay
negative drug test results and overstate positive ones.
I think it's important to keep this in mind when we go to our doctors for
treatment and/or medicine. They may be overly biased towards certain
treatment programs just because of the medical culture from which they draw
the majority of their current information. And that medical information
culture, at least according to this article, may be too influenced by drug
manufacturers who have a monied interest in 'helping' medical professionals
see their product as the 'only' safe treatment vehicle. IMO, I think the
best yardstick for any medical treatment plan is, "Is it helping me?" If
not, something else may be in order. Here's the link to the article:
<A

Sometimes it helps to see a broader perspective on a topic . . .
especially if it is spiced with a little humor. See
http://www.aaskolnick.com/medhist.htm
Best wishes,
Celeste

Sarah,
Dr. Denis Wilson, who developed the timed-release T3 treatment for
subclinical hypothyroidism, lists asthma, sleep apnea, allergies, blood sugar
disturbances, among common symptoms of low thyroid disorder.
Yes, I still have this a lot of the time. Sometimes I get a tickle or cough
that I can't get rid of and feel if I can just cough, I can get that
somethingout but I can't. Sometimes the goiter seems more puffy than at
other times and I correlate that mostly with increased life stress. Also,
when I sleep I can feel there's a pressure on my trachea. I think that's why
I still snore. The sleep apnea seems to have diminished since I started the
timed-release T3, thankfully.
Maybe synthroid isn't the medicine for you! There are a lot of people who
don't do well on it, even though the company that manufactures it has about
every doctor I've ever met thinking it's the ONLY drug that works.
As far as the exhaustion, I definitely can relate to that! Even though I had
a busy life my 20s to my 40s, I remember just feeling pasted to the floor
most days in spite of eating well, sleeping very deeply, trying to exercise,
etc. IEven as such a little time as a year ago, before I went on the T3, I
was still falling asleep at work! And I work standing up!! Also, I kept
falling asleep driving to errands only ten minutes from my house! That's
when I finally said, "Enough!" and I went looking for a new doctor with a new
approach!
Good luck on your search for a new doctor! Keep looking until you find
someone who listens to and treats YOU, not just your lab values.
Linda in LA

Girl Shawn,
I'm going to assume that by Oshimotos you actually mean Hashimoto's
thyroiditis (which is what I also have). Hashimoto's is an autoimmune
disease. Once you have any autoimmune disorder then you are also at
greater risk to develop others (such as rheumatoid arthritis,
systemic lupus erythematosus, Sjogren's syndrome, crohn's disease,
multiple sclerosis, etc.). If you are not getting enough medication
or the right kind of medication, though, then you could feel
arthritic when you really aren't.
The Synthroid dosage you're on is not unusual. That's the same dose I
was on when I was taking Synthroid. My doctor switched me to
Levothroid and I have to take a slightly lower dosage of that since
it is a more effective medication for me. Are you being careful to
store your medication in the refrigerator and to always take it on an
empty stomach with just plain water? Are you being careful not to eat
too many goitrogenic foods (such as soy, brassica vegetables, etc.)?
When your face goes numb try doing some slow, deep breathing and see
if that alleviates it. This might also help when you have the lump in
your throat feeling.
Sleep apnea is common in people who are hypothyroid. It is also
commone in people who are overweight. My husband has it and he uses a
C-PAP machine when he sleeps to keep his airway open.
I hope you can get a referral to a good endocrinologist who can help
you sort out your symptoms and find some better solutions.
Best wishes for excellent health,
Celeste

Hello all,
First let me start off with thank you for all your
input. I've called several of them and they all want
referrals from my reg doc. I called and made an
appoitment to get that take care of.
My questions.
(back ground first)
I have Oshimotos and was diagnosed at 12, I'm 31 now.
I also have Asthma, allergies and arthritis. With
every thing I've read for the last few weeks I'm
starting to think I don't have Asthma or arthritis.
I'm beginning to think it is all my Thyiroid issues.
I'm trying really hard to loose weight and between
reading these posts and keeping a record of my
physical moods the last few weeks leads me to my
questions.
Well here are the questions..
There will be days when I don't eat a thing because I
feel just so full and my tummy is bloated.. I actually
attribute this to pms. Have any of the ladies noticed
this too?
My face will go numb sometimes. Has anyone else felt
this?
I always feel like there is something stuck in my
throat. Does anyone else have this?
The pure exhaustion.. I know I've seen posts about
that, but I eat right, get 9 hours of sleep, walk,
work out strech, take it easy and there are some times
I can't lift my head off of my pillow and it takes
everything I have to get moving. At one point I
thought this might be depression but I didn't feel
emotionally bad. Just physically exhausted. I
thought the meds where supposed to take care of this.
I'm on synthorid 1.75 mcgs. Should I be concerned
about high that level is? About every year the levels
go off kilter and I end up with blood tests every
other week until its level again, and the result being
an increase in meds. Isn't that bad? For the longest
time I thought I was either beginning a diabetic or
hypoglycemic. So I took steps to deal with that, eat
right, exercise, sleep right and so on. I was also
loosly diagnosed with allergy/asthma indused sleep
apnea. The doc wanted to do follow up tests but I ran
out of insurance. If the goiter is swollen I'm
thinking that may be the cause. Has any one else
experienced that?
Ok so there are a lot of questions and I don't get to
see a endo until I see the reg doc but I'm paying out
of pocket so she should have no problems with sending
me to a endocrinologist.
Girl Shawn

In a message dated 6/3/2002 11:52:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
silver_lunar_2000@... writes:
Cheyenne,
Yes, this has happened to several of us here. I went untreated for hypoT for
30 years for this same reason--my TSH tests never went out of range yet I had
all the symptoms and kept getting worse. My doc, Keith DeOrio in Santa
Monica, has been the first doc I've ever been to who believed me and put me
on medicine. He can run expensive if you try all his alternative treatments
but he is a very good holistic doc with a lot to offer and very good clinical
skills. I'm on a budget since he's not on my health plan, so I buy a few of
his alternative treatments but most importantly, he writes me script for
medicine that has made me well for the first time since I was 20!
Here's his info: Keith DeOrio, M.D., 310-828-3096, 1821 Wilshire Blvd, Santa
Monica, CA, 90403
Here, also is a list of more holistically minded docs t/o CA. I got them
from the Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome list (which is what my diagnosis is).
Wilson's may not be your label, but these docs will be more open minded and
more willing to treat you, the person, not your lab test numbers.
Good luck, Linda in LA (list follows)
Dr. David Allen
2211 Corinth Ave., #204
Los Angeles, CA 90064
(310) 966-9194
Jacqueline Carson, N.D.
2496 E Street, Suite 300
San Diego, CA 92102
(619) 236-8285
Robert Cathcart, MD
127 2nd St., Unit #4
Los Altos, CA 94022
(650) 949-2822
Patricia Deckert, DO
1347 Tavern Rd.
Alpine, CA 91901-3820
(619) 445-6551
Dr. Keith DeOrio
1821 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 100
Santa Monica, CA 90403
(310) 828-3096
Dr. Robert Dreibelbis
13420 Newport Ave.
Tustin, CA 92780
(714) 544-6050
Geoffrey V. Drew, MD, FAAFP
430 E. Ave. de los Arboles #203
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
805-492-1015
David Freeman, MD
PMS Treatment Clinic
150 N. Santa Anita, #755
Arcadia, CA 91006
800-999-3767
John K. Gerard, MD
NuLife Medical Center
8881 Fletcher Parkway, #255
La Mesa, CA 91942
619-337-9993
Dr. Richard Gracer
5401 Norris Canyon Road, Suite 102
San Ramon, CA 94583
(925) 277-1100
Kent Holtorf, M.D.
1125 South Beverly Dr., Suite 600
Beverly Hills, CA 90035
310-541-7115
Jace Medical Group
10843 Magnolia Blvd., #1
North Hollywood, CA
Dr. Ron Kennedy
2448 Guerneville Rd., Suite 800
Santa Rosa, CA 95403-7228
(707) 576-0100
Dr. Francine M. Michaels, DC
26135 Carmel Rancho Blvd., Suite F-24
Carmel, CA 93923
(831) 624-5157
David Mitzner, D.O.
Vintage Medical Group
27625 Jefferson Ave., Suite 101
Temecula, CA 92590
909-676-3748
Dr. Larry Peterson
31 Winham St.
Salinas, CA 93901
(831) 771-0244
Dr. Howard Press, MD
172 El Dorado St.
Monterey, CA 93940-3118
(408) 373-1551
Hitendra Shah, MD
22807 Barton
Grand Terrace, CA 92313
(909) 783-2773
Terri L. Snyder, Family Nurse Practitioner
Healing Touch Center For Health and Well Being
35424 Hwy. 41
Coarsegold, CA 93614
559-683-7377
Phillip Taylor, MD
325 S. Moorpark Rd.
Thousand Oaks, CA 91361
(805) 497-3839
Dr. Ernest Thomas
777 Knowles Drive
Los Gatos, CA 95030
408-378-2552
James T. Webber, MD
5059 Newport Ave., Suite 205
San Diego, CA 92107
(619) 224-3225
Dr. Ronald Wempen
14795 Jeffrey Rd., Suite 101
Irvine, CA 92618
(949) 551-8751
Dr. Yang's Family Care
10201 Mission Gorge Rd.
Santee, CA 92071
619-596-4965

I have all the symptoms of hypothyroidisim but my doctor said that i
don't have it. It's very frustrated..
I was on birth controll on and off for a few years, and I went off
in January and haven't have my period since. However, I started to
gain weight rapidly, 20 lbs in 2 months, and started to feel tired,
puffness around my eyes, cheek, .... etc.
Here is my lab:
TSH 1.22
T4 8.6
T3 1.22
glucose 108
testosterone, free 2.4
Do anyone have a good doctor to refer in orange county or los
angeles ?
thanks
cheyenne

Mine *was* 32 when I was first diagnosed - 5 years ago. Obviously being on
meds. it's not that high now. ;o)
I'm assuming your dr. has started you on a thyroid hormone replacement?
Julia H.

GirlShawn,
Have you tried the thyroid top doc directory on thyroid.about.com?? Well I
copied and pasted the Seattle dr's for you - hopefully this helps.
Karen
Seattle
Dr Rebecca Wynsome ND, Water's Edge Natural Health Services, 150 Nickerson
Street, Suite 211, Seattle WA 98109 Phone: 206-283-1383. A reader writes:
"She is on Broda Barne's foundation referral list too. What I like about her
is that she really listens, and both she and her whole staff have treated me
with the utmost respect and courtesy. She is a licensed naturopath, and
prescribes natural hormones such as Armour. Each patient is treated like an
individual, and a unique plan is devised, based on your lab tests, physical
examination and what you report. I live in MN, and even though I have to
travel to WA for exams, I would recommend Dr Wynsome.
Seattle
Mindy L. Blaski, M.D., Family Practice, 3216 NE 45th PL, Suite 106, Seattle,
WA 98105-4028, (206) 526-0210. "I have had temporary thyroiditis in the past
with sub-clinical hypothryroid in the past, and I went to a new doctor. Her
approach was to do what was the "industry standard" and when my TSH level
came back as normal, all I recieved was a "I hope you are feeling better"
letter in the mail. I went to Doctor Blaski on a recommendation from a
friend and she listened, did more tests, including antibodies and low and
behold I was right and there is something wrong, my TPO antibody test was at
nearly 20! She even encouraged me before we got the test results back that
even if they all came back as "normal" she would find out what was wrong.
Now she has referred me to Dr. Murray (also on this list) for more tests. I
really liked her because she took the time to listen and talk to me as a
peer rather than talking down to me, and she doesn't treat her patients like
lab values."
Seattle
Dr. Robert Murray, Polyclinic on Broadway.
http://www.polyclinic.com/op_name.htm. A reader writes: "He is excellent and
'saved' my life!!!!"
Another fan of Dr. Murray:
I had 2 normal TSH tests in 6 years - and all the classic hypo symptoms. He
listened, gave me a TRH and antibody test and diagnosed me. When I had brain
fog on T4 - he prescribed T3 (before I knew to ask for it). When I had a
super-sensitive reaction to too much T4, he was skeptical but tested my
blood levels a week apart and admitted I was right, Id shot past the normal
range, and he revised my meds accordingly. When I told him I had to lower T4
before my period he just said - its illogical, but if it works - do it. He
treats symptoms - using all available treatments - and he listens to the
patient not just test results.
Another patient writes:
I learned of Dr. Murray from this site -- thanks! I'd had a goiter for 8
years but consistently received normal thyroid reports from other
physicians. I'd learned a bit from this site before seeing him, and was
impressed and comforted that he addressed all issues I felt were important.
He takes the time to explain, and always whips out a pad and draws diagrams
and makes notes for me to take home -- continuing education! He truly
listens and takes my comments and complaints seriously, and I know I'm in
good hands. I've recommended him to a co-worker who has been seeing another
physician for years, and she is also very impressed. I can't recommend him
highly enough.
More praise for Dr. Murray:
Going to Dr. Murray, shares one reader, has changed my life dramatically.
Although I'd been taking T4 (Synthroid) for years, I had serious problems
with brain fog. My memory was getting bad and I couldn't make decisions
about anything. So I went to Dr. Murray, who prescribed T3 and lowered my T4
a little. He really listened to my symptoms (which no doctor ever had done
before). Now I'm able to remember better, make decisions, and feel much more
alive and aware. I've recommended Dr. Murray to a friend, who also had good
results.
Another patient writes:
"Dr Murray listened to me when I came into his office. I was tired and
frustrated. I had heard that maybe I had depression because my thryroid
wasn't "that low." He turned to me and said, "Don't worry, we're going to
fix this. You are going to feel better!" He did the appropriate tests and
prescribed Synthroid. When he felt appropriate he prescribed Cytomel. He is
always attentive to what I say and how I feel. If I have a complaint about
something he listens. He saved my life. Before him I couldn't concentrate, I
was so tired, and I thought I was going to feel that way forever. He is a
great doctor. I'm a nurse, I should know!"
Another fan:
"Dr. Murray believes in treating patients, not lab values. In his practice,
he's found that patients whose lab work is in the "normal" range, but who
still don't feel well, do very well with the addition of Cytomel. He
generally aims for TSH of 1.0 or below, but also runs free T3 and Free T4,
tweaking medication where needed. Visits aand assessment are 3X a year,
rather than yearly, so he's really able to keep track of his patients. He is
an open-minded breath of fresh air in the stodgy and inflexible endo
community of the Pac. Northwest."
Seattle/Tacoma/Edmonds
A reader writes: "I had my thyroid checked for years through regular
MD's...lab values were always on the lowest side of normal...so no doctor
would treat my hypothyroid symptoms...despite the fact that two other family
members, my father and brother, both need thyroid supplementation. I finally
found a doctor in Edmonds, Wa, who puts stock in clinical evaluations as
well as lab values...and had me perform the underarm basal body temperature
test. Based on the outcome...plus all of the other symptoms he treated me
with 1 grain Armour thyroid supplements. He is a top doc...Dean Neary, N.D.,
working with Dr. Michael Stern in Edmonds, Wa, just north of Seattle/Tacoma
and not a far trip. Phone: 425-775-3717"
Dr. Neary writes in to tell us:
I will be opening a second office in late November or early December 2000 in
Snohomish, WA with a new phone number 360-568-2686 (I would love to see it
added to the information posted on my current practice). I see at least one
new individual a day who complains of symptoms that are possibly due to an
inadequate functioning thyroid. I thoroughly enjoy helping the people to
regain control of the life and sense of well being. As I said initially, I
have received numerous referrals from your site, thank you, and look forward
to continuing to assist your sites visitors with their search for answers.
Dean E. Neary Jr., N.D., Licensed Naturopathic Physician, Lynnwood, WA
425-775-3717 Fax 425-775-7880 Snohomish, WA 360-568-2686.
Seattle
A reader writes: "I saw your request for top docs in the Anchorage area and
am sorry to report that I don't think there is enough thyroid cancer cases
in Alaska for much help from specialists. So i have no one to recommend for
endos or oncologists. The ENT's up here all subscribe to the "cut it out
then burn it" philosophy. So I had my surgery done in Seattle. Excellent
surgeon Dr. Stephen Clark. So I want to recommend my GP. Dr. Mattison White
in Anchorage. He diagnosed me originally during a routine physical and
probably saved my life. "What is that lump on your neck?" I said "What
lump?" I couldn't see it and didn't even know I had it myself. Later since I
had a lobectomy and wanted to hold off on the complete thyroidectomy and
monitor it instead. He is helping me with this. I have blood tests and RAI
imaging. I gradually went on Synthroid (actually about 12 months after my
surgery) and am taking .2 now which gives me a negligible TSH. I think this
will make my remaining thyroid atrophy. Dr. White has excellent
communication manner. You can go in a talk to him about everything. I highly
recommend him(in lieu of an endo)."
Seattle
A reader writes: "I saw the note requesting a Doctor in the Seattle, WA
area. I found a great endocrinologist, his name is Paul Fredlund located at
Virginia Mason Clinic, North Pavilion 2nd floor, 1100 9th Ave, Seattle, WA
98101, phone number 206-223-6623. It can be hard to get into see him as he's
so busy but he's worth the wait. There's still a debate as to if I have a
thyroid problem (my TSH count is low) but Dr Fredlund did figure out I have
fibromyalgia and I'm now seeing a rheumatologist (he's also great if anyone
needs one in Seattle). It's refreshing to find a Doctor who keeps up on
what's new in his field and has an open mind on other possibilities. Dr.
Fredlund does not hesitate to send you to another specialist if he's not
sure. I hope this helps the person who is looking for a good Doctor." (NOTE
FROM MARY SHOMON, 11/2000:According to patients, Dr. Fredlund is almost
impossible to get in to see, but Dr. Kenneth Gross and Dr. James Benson are
in the same practice, and may be available.)
Seattle
Dr. Kenneth Gross, endocrinologist, Virginia Mason Hospital 1-206-223-6600.
A reader shares, He truly listens and he agreed with my belief that the
.3-7.2 normal range is far too broad. He leans more toward .3 to 3.0 as a
range for normal. He is compassionate and able to see past the emotional
moments a thyroid patient suffers through. What is more, the doctors at
Virginia Mason identified that I went into sudden menopause following I-131
treatment, a diagnosis which escaped both my general practitioner and
then-endocrinologist for nine miserable months. I appreciate Dr. Gross and
recommend him to everyone I meet with a thyroid imbalance.
Seattle
Dr. Gary Enzmann, Endocrinology (specialty diabetes), Nordstrom Medical
Towers, 1229 Madison, Suite 1500, Seattle, WA 98104, (206) 386-9500 for
appt. "I was referred to Dr. Enzmann while being checked for thyroid cancer.
He was very professional, wears a bow tie! He drew several diagrams
indicating where the problem area was, and explained fully what was to be
done. Answered questions and gave me a history of thyroid cancer and the
different types. When I had the FNA test, it barely hurt at all. He was very
gentle and even though there were 5 or 6 samples taken, I had hardly any
pain. A minor anesthetic was injected under the skin to make the test more
comfortable. I have been with Dr. Enzmann since May of 2000, going back for
follow ups and blood tests to check the levels of thyroid hormone. My lump
did turn out to be thyroid cancer and I was then referred to a head and neck
specialist who performed the surgery. Dr. Enzmann saw me through the follow
ups and preparation for radioactive iodine therapy and my 1 year test in
June of 2001 (which was negative!). I am very happy with Dr. Enzmann and
would recommend him to anyone with a thyroid problem. He is also very busy
and sometimes it takes a while to get in to see him, but he is worth it. He
also has an office in Bellevue near Overlake Hospital which he sees patients
at one day a week (call for details). In addition to Dr. Enzmann being
wonderful, his nurse/medical assistant, Susan, is terrific. The first time I
was there, I was very upset and crying, she came right in and hugged me. She
has since hugged me on every visit. Dr. Enzmann has an associate in the
practice, Dr. Frances Broyles. One of my friends goes to her and likes her a
lot. Even though Dr. Enzmann's specialty is diabetes, he handles a lot of
thyroid cancer patients. My medication has needed regulating a few times,
and he always gets me on track. Please consider him if you live in or near
the Seattle area, and tell him I heartily recommended him!"

I really haven't found a doctor that I like. I live in Longview......(closer to
Portland than Seattle). We do have insurance....but I'm presently going to a
doctor that the insurance doesn't cover. I'm still in search of a doctor that
our insurance will cover. So far....any open minded doctors that have been
suggested to me are not listed on our insurance. So...I'm still searching.
---Have you lived in WA all your life? I would think that Seattle would have
some decent doctors. I saw some good links on some of the posts that others
sent you. Good Luck!
Wendy

does anyone else have a really high tsh reading!!! I have just found
out that I am hyothyroidism and i dont know much about it!!!
misprize@...

does anyone else have a tsh reading as high as 20 or above if so what
is your side affects!!!!!

In a message dated 6/3/2002 12:42:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sararahne@... writes:
Sarah,
Here is a list of docs from the Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome website. Wilson's
may not be your diagnosis, but these docs are on the list b/c they supposedly
have an open mind toward treating you, the patient, instead of just reading
blood test numbers and dismissing you if you don't have the "correct" ones!
I see most of these referrals are NDs. Can they write script for meds in WA?
It not, I would advise you call ahead to their office to see if they work w/
a MD if you were to need medicine. There's one doc listed in Snohomish and a
few others in the Seattle area. Good luck! Linda
Washington
Gary Bachman, ND
1910 Riverside Dr; #5
Mt. Vernon, WA 98273
(360) 424-3460
Rick Marschall, N.D.
162 S. Barr Rd.
Port Angeles, WA 98362
360-457-1515
Owen Miller, N.D.
2611 N. Stevens, Suite A
Tacoma, WA 98407
(253) 752-2558
Dean E Neary, Jr., ND
The Snohomish Naturopathic Clinic
209 Ave. D, Suite 100 B
Snohomish, WA 98290
(360) 568-2686
Jane Bernstein Pearson, ND
1703 Rude Rd.
Poulsbo, WA 98370
(360) 697-7070
Kaiten Rivers, N.D.
919 South 10th St.
Tacoma, WA 98405
(253) 572-5100
Herbert Schuck, ND
12610 Des Moines Way S., #202
Seattle, WA 98168
(206) 248-0061
Laura Shelton, ND
1707 F Street
Billingham, WA 98225
(360) 734-1560
Letitia Watrous, ND
1137 West Garland Ave.
Spokane, WA 99205
(509) 327-5143
Bradford S. Weeks, MD
6456 South Central Ave., Whidbey Island
Clinton, WA 98236-9698
(360) 341-2303
Joseph Wessels, ND
1903 D St.
Bellingham, WA 98225-3203
(360) 734-9500

In a message dated 6/2/2002 7:22:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
thighmaster@... writes:
Celeste,
Yes, it is! Pilates, through machines that use levers, springs, and elastic,
is much easier on my body than the weight machines and stationary bicycle
were. And the instruction is very precise, making it difficult to injure
yourselff, if you find an educated and experienced trainer. The core
strength development has been of inestimable value. Though, it took me about
three months to understand what it feels like to contract and use those
inner, core muscles! I was that out of shape and out of touch with my body!
Another thing Pilates has helped me with has been balance. I have a 1/2 inch
short leg but only in the last two years did I find out about wearing a lift.
So, my hips have always been uneven. This made aerobics or running or
tennis-like activities difficult for me to do. Pilates has helped me develop
my strength evenly. The Wunda Chair, in particular, forces me to find my
balance for stability while I work first one side of the body and then the
other against the spring controlled paddle.
I feel so good now when I work out!
Linda

Linda,
I think Pilates is really excellent . . . probably about the best
choice for someone who has been a couch potato and wants to get
started on a fitness program. Pilates strengthens your core muscles
and provides you with a good foundation for other exercise programs
that you might want to progress to. Pilates by itself, though, also is
a great fitness program. It certainly sounds like it has been very
good for you and I think that's wonderful.
Best wishes for excellent health,
Celeste

Hello Group,
I am thinking trying body for life. Just curious if it has worked for
anyone like us with thyroid problems.
Thanks,
Tess

In a message dated 6/2/2002 4:43:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
whorocks@... writes:
Hi Tess,
I tried Body for Life. That was before I was able to get any significant
amounts of medicine for hypothyroidsim, though, because my tests always
showed normal in spite of my obvious symptoms. I did the alternating
weights/aerobics for six months. I never could get over feeling sore in all
that time. I did get stronger and had to back to the fitness store to buy 12
and 15 pound weights. But I was sore the whole time from the day I started
working out with the program two days after I quit six months later. The
diet was okay. I never lost a pound. In fact, I gained about five pounds,
though my clothes fit tighter there for awhile.
Now, since I've been on timed-release T3 for about eight months, I find my
muscles don't get so everlastingly sore. I may feel a twinge of soreness
after a training session but it's gone in a day. So, about four months ago,
I joined a Pilates gym and began taking training there. I had to start at
the very beginning because I've basically been a couch potato my whole life
due to 30 years of untreated hypothyroidism. But a little at a time, two
private sessions a week, I've changed my posture, lost over 15 pounds (with
the help of regular Weight Watchers meetings), increased my strength,
flexibility, balance, resistance, and range of training I can do. I bought a
used Wunda Chair a couple of weeks ago so I can continue my workouts at home
on days I can't get to the gym. For me, it's been the first, steady, stength
training I've ever been able to do.
Linda in LA

Celeste,
I certainly hear where you're coming from. I guess I wouldn't be as mad at
a mechanic for screwing up my car as I would a physician for screwing up my
body. Managed care certainly hasn't helped people in the medical
profession. I was a Social Worker and had a huge caseload, so I can also
understand what it's like to be pressured to see all of them and not having
that quality. What I did though was if I could only see the person for 15
minutes, I would make sure that I followed up with their concerns still and
try to make sure that they didn't feel neglected. It was a struggle at
times though. What does your brother-in-law think?
Karen

Sally
In a funny sort of way you have cheered me up. I had my thryriod removed in
October 1999 due to Amiodarone. I do not take any other meds now except
Thyroxin. I am exactly the same as you, in fact I thought this was an old mail
of mine that somebody was answering to. I have slept most of the day
today and just started to wake up, I have one other major difference to you,
when on T4 Cox or eltroxin I get this itchy right lung and joint pains. The
armour cured this all but after two weeks on I/2 grain my heart went too fast
and I got short of breath.
As we are both in the UK can we keep in touch please as the drugs name here will
be the same for both of us. I feel we are missing something in our body what I
do not know I have tried vitamins Royal Jelly DHEA but that caused a terrible
headache. any ideas??
Many thanks
John C
Ps I am in Hornchurch Essex.

Karen,
Yes, good doctors are hard to find. So are good car mechanics,
plumbers, cabinet makers, etc. Basically, it's hard to find people who
are really good at their profession no matter what it is.
I would not want to be a doctor. The lifestyle is too demanding (I
have a brother-in-law who is a family practice physician), not to
mention the cost of the education, and the crap that residents and
interns have to put up with from the "real" doctors in the hospitals
where they are employed.
I think most doctors are just too stressed out from the demands of
their profession. The ones who are really good are probably the ones
who have learned how to handle their stress the best. Maybe more
doctors would do better if they had more education on stress
management for themselves and in active listening techniques. Knowing
that I don't those things so well myself sometimes, though, makes it
hard for me to criticize others. I would rather spend my energy trying
to change the things that I believe I can actually have some effect
on.
Best wishes always,
Celeste

Sally,
I think you are probably right that more DHEA is not what you need
right now. However, DHEA won't cause androgenic reactions in women.
Excess DHEA converts mainly to estrogen. Any excess testosterone is
also converted to estrogen. This could explain some of the symptoms
you're having . . . the ones that are similar to estogen dominance
(forgetfulness, cry easily, carbohydrate cravings).
I hope you have some success in getting cortisol and that it helps.
Best wishes for excellent health,
Celeste

Gracia,
I understand your outrage. Since moving from Texas to Washington state two
years ago, I still haven't found a doctor I like. It seems that the doctors
here just run the patients in & out like an assembly line, trying to keep
everything on schedule. They don't really take the patient into consideration.
They just want to fill their quota for the day. And, of course, the doctor
always considers himself the authority on all matters, trying to make the
patient understand that he really isn't nearly as knowledgable as any doctor
could be. So, the doctor is alwayssss right.
Just a thought..................Have any of you every met a doctor on this
site??? I wonder what a physician that had hypo would say about the system????
Wendy

Sally, how old are you? It sounds like you need adrenal or other hormones
that work with thyroid, like dhea/progesterone. This happened to me too.
Gracia

Hi All
I am beginning to wonder whether I can tolerate more than 1/2 grain Armour
for my thyroid.
I was diagnosed Hypo / Hashi's at the beginning of April. I started off
taking 1/2 grain Armour. When I increased to 1 grain I developed dizziness,
fast heart rate and leg weakness after about a week. I dropped back to 1/2
grain for about 3 weeks. Then my doc added in 25mcg T4 and after about a
week, I started experiencing dizziness whenever I moved my head, mainly in
the evenings. Now after another week, the dizziness is much improved,
although my heart rate is still quite high (96 bpm). My recent blood
pressure was 130/100 up from 125/65.
Could my adrenals be affecting my ability to tolerate the thyroid meds? My
Adrenal Stress Profile before treatment showed low-normal Cortisol and very
elevated DHEA-S. Also, when I did the questionnaire in "Adrenal Fatigue: The
21st Century Stress Syndrome" by James L Wilson, I came out as having severe
adrenal fatigue.
I have been taking medicine from a herbalist for my adrenals for 3 weeks,
but so far I have not noticed any difference. I am still very tired and
foggy, no energy as well as weight gain, dry skin, sensitivity to sun,
gritty eyes, dark circles under eyes, sore throats, palpitations, sweating,
frequent colds / viral infections, brittle nails, wispy hair, sparse hair on
forearms & lower legs, headaches, joint pain, intolerance of cold, cold
feet, forgetfulness, lack of motivation, depression, anxiety, cry easily,
difficulty coping with stress, startle easily, carbohydrate cravings, low
basal temperature ... I could go on!.
My doc is not keen on using Cortisol & prefers to support the adrenals
herbally. Can this really help? How long will it take?
I was thinking of taking adrenal glandulars - has anyone taken them? Did
they help? How long before you felt any improvement?
I am becoming very despondent. I just want to feel like a human being again!
Thanks for listening
Sally (UK)

Gracia, the thing I find interesting as well is when someone does find a
great dr. - they are so excited b/c he/she listened and was open to working
with us as individuals, not just one clump of generalizations of
hypothyroids. One size does not fit all. I think that should be the
standard, not the exception. The fact that it is the exception (dr's who
listen) disgusts me. Just my opinion.
Karen

I just don't think I am "blaming". I am outraged, I am furious, there is no
excuse for what mostly goes on in this disease care system, not even
"nobody's perfect". We must demand better--instead of a drug for every
symptom, we must address the underlying problem. Please don't lecture me.
My family and I have suffered too much. I am always looking for a health
care provider to work with, and next I might try a Broda Barnes doc 2 hours
away from me. I just took my mother to a women's clinic where a very
inexperienced nurse practioner did the standard tsh test on her, even though
I requested free T3, and said she was fine. My mother believes the test,
thinks she doesn't need more thyroid, and is very sick right now, and also
on inappropriate medications because of undertreatment. It boggles my mind
that the patient is sick but the test is pronounced well.
Gracia

Hope,
Shaking hands and nervousness can be symptoms of hyperthyroidism. You
might want to ask your doctor to check your free T3 and free T4
levels.
Best wishes,
Celeste

Wendy,
I think that practicing yoga and/or other forms of meditation are a
very important part of staying healthy. Various types of meditation
have been clinically proven to be helpful in relieving asthma and
other breathing problems. Being able to breathe in a relaxed manner is
key to stopping and preventing panic attacks. Being able to control my
breathing is one of the things that helped me the most in being able
to stop having panic attacks. I find that when I practice
Transcendental Meditation regularly (which I learned about 25 years
ago) it helps me stay a lot healthier overall. Best of all, things
like yoga and meditation don't require any special equipment. Once
you've learned the techniques you'll have them forever and be able to
use them any time you want.
Best wishes,
Celeste

breathing problems. I'm far from perfect now. But, over the years,
my breathing problems & panic attacks have seemed to improved.

Thanks again for your responses. I understand that drs and
other "say" it is ok to take meds while nursing, but I would never
because everything I take is excreted into the breastmilk and my
baby gets. I feel that the drs look at immediate short term effects
and they say it is harmless, but their is no knowing how it would
be effecting the child longterm. I am a childbirth and
breastfeeding educator, and I tell all clients definetly not to take
drugs while nursing. I also have another question....how long
before synthroid would begin to take effect? I am on it for only 2
days and feel better. Am I just having a good day, or is it the
meds??? Jill

Hope I just posted as to what worked for me for panic and nervousness. You
will need to be on the right medicine at the right dose, and definately get
T3. Also Linda posted a url, I think from www.thyroid.about.com
Gracia

Thanks for all your responses. Just to let all to know, no dr. or
endo suggested i quit nursing. I will not nurse and take ANY
medication, as i know that ALL is excreted into the breastmilk.
Their is no way i would ever take synthroid and still nurse my
child as this med would effect her thyroid same as it does mine.
She is 2 yrs old now, and it is better for her to not have synthroid
in her system. What drs are saying it is ok???? It is not.
Anyway, it is said i have hashimotos. My dr started me on .025
mg of synthroid today. I have many symptoms of hyper and hypo
thyroid, I feel crazy! Today was actually a good day, not too much
panic. How quickly does the synthroid work? Perhaps I just had
a good day on my own, that has happened in the past. Does
anyone here have hashimotos with times of really rapid heart
rate? Thanks for your help, Jill

I will not nurse and take ANY medication, as i know that ALL is
excreted into the breastmilk.
Hi Jill,
I don't think that is true. Read below : ) take care
Karen
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/breastfeeding.htm#continue
Should I continue taking my thyroid hormone drugs (i.e.,
Synthroid, Levoxyl, Armour, Thyrolar) when I'm breastfeeding?
Yes. Thyroid hormone replacement, when provided in proper dosage level,
crosses into breast milk in only minute quantities, and has no adverse
effect on the baby.
That said, this holds true only if the blood hormone levels remain in the
normal range. If too much thyroid hormone is being taken and levels become
hyperthyroid, then thyroid hormone can pass into the breastmilk. For this
reason, if you are a nursing mother on thyroid hormone, you must take
medication exactly as prescribed by a physician. The period following
delivery is one where thyroid levels can fluctuate, so frequent testing is
very important, because your dosage and TSH level may be just right three
months post-partum, but three months later, the same dosage could be making
you hyperthyroid. So, plan to get blood levels drawn frequently (i.e., every
three months) as long as you are nursing your baby.
Stopping your thyroid hormone, or taking less than prescribed, is also not
recommended, because not only is that insufficient treatment for your
hypothyroidism, and putting you at risk of various symptoms and side-effects
of hypothyroidism, but proper thyroid hormone replacement is actually
necessary for normal lactation.
If my baby is found to be hypothyroid, can I take the thyroid hormone
myself, and have it pass through into the breastmilk?
No. If your baby is found to be hypothyroid (the mandatory "heel stick" test
conducted on all newborns in the U.S. tests for hypothyroidism), the infant
will need thyroid treatment right away to normalize thyroid levels.
Untreated hypothyroidism in newborns must be treated, or the child is at
risk of developmental and growth delays and impairment. The amounts of
thyroid hormone that pass into breast milk are not sufficient to act as a
substitute for direct treatment for hypothyroidism in a newborn.

Hey all - i noticed this subject and i wanted to post - im in desperate
advice or just a understanding on this all. I work as a cashier at a gas
station and lately ive been having spells of severe hands shaking - at times
i even have troubles counting money back to people. I dont know really what
is causing this - i know it could be nerves and being nurvous around certian
customers but its really effecting my work and i hate it. I feel like i
could cry at times it gets so bad - i try to hide it and stop it but nothing
seems to help ...... info advice? please ..... i know lately ive been
feeling real anxisous about a lot and i dont know if this has lead to this
to get worse or what. thanks all and any advice tips or even stories would
be helpfull. Thanks Hope

Hi folks,
I have been reading a little of the "debate" about
DHEA, role of doctors, etc.
Here's my "two cents".......
I think it can be dangerous for a person to completely
submit to a doctor
without questioning, suggesting, doing one's own
research on the problem
they are having.
The medical profession is now, in most cases, an
"industry" based upon
moving the "cattle" (patients) through the line as
quickly as possibly. If a
patient can get five minutes of a doctor's attention,
he or she feels fortunate.
So, I certainly agree that we often need to be our own
physician, as much
as we are able.
Now, on the other hand.....
By law, we can't prescibe prescription medicines or
lab tests for ourselves.
So, there are times when we will HAVE to have a
doctor. Also, I certainly
wouldn't want to perform surgery to remove a tumor
from my own brain.
So, the point I am making is that (A). We shouldn't
just naively "turn over"
our health issues to a doctor thinking that they have
all the answers and
wisdom; (B). But there are times when we may need to
use the services
of a physician.
I personally believe that if I use the services of a
physician, I would rather
he or she be an alternative/complementary/holistic
physician. After 20
years of being unsuccessfully treated by conventional
doctors (and being almost
literally killed by a couple of them who didn't know
what they were doing)
I don't have a lot of faith in mainstream medicine
these days.
Jim

Folks,
Please understand that the doctor story I sent out
yesterday is absolutely
true. It is not, as someone asked, "satire." I
don't waste my time
sending out little stories that are made up in
someone's head. I don't
like to get those kinds of e-mail messages and so I
don't send them out. This
story happened to someone who personally related it to
me and many others.
Jim

I had problems with Panic Attacks years ago. I thought I was losing my mind.
This was long before I was ever diagnosed hypo. I have no idea what caused
them. I continued to have problems over a lesser degree. I would cough & cough
& cough....my eyes would water.....I couldn't get my breath. A nurse friend of
mine finally wittnessed one of my episodes & declared that I had asthma. After
going to a specialist....he told me that I had some type of breathing probem,
but didn't diagnose me with asthma. He did prescibe Asthmacort inhaler. It
seemed to help. After using that a year or so....I seemed to get better. I
still have to keep cough drops with me though. Another thing that helped me
with my coughing was taking Magonate, a magnesium supplement. I've also started
taking Yoga which has helped me with my breathing problems. I'm far from
perfect now. But, over the years, my breathing problems & panic attacks have
seemed to improved.
Wendy

I find it to be a kind of confusing obfuscation that takes responsibility
and empowerment away from the patient, and puts it back with the doctor/drug
company. I have had to rely on myself to get well and have yet to find a
doctor as knowledgeable as I! John's symptoms are clearly hormonal.
However the purpose of this message board is to share our experience and
knowledge because we aren't getting it from the doctors, and I am sure he
will figure out what is best for him.

Celeste,
You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I
don't think you are seeing
what was so disturbing about this doctor's reaction.
Simply: He was HAPPY. Here was a poor woman on her
death bed
struggling to get a breath. Here was her family,
grieving the impending
loss of a loved one.
And this doctor was HAPPY because his work on her arm
stroked his
ego. Put yourself in the situation of this doctor.
How would you have
reacted/responded to the dying woman and her grieving
relatives?
Would you have expressed joy, exhultation with the
condition of her
ARM?
Also, many thousands of people who have heard this
story have
understood the bizarre irony of a medical doctor being
so concerned with
a person's appendage (arm), while the patient was in
the throes of death.
Jim
Jim,
I'm sorry but I don't see the point of this story. The
doctor had
worked on the sick woman's arm before her current
illness. The doctor
couldn't do anything for her current illness. By
checking her arm,
though, he could see that what he had done did help
her arm and that
he could probably expect to be able to repeat that for
other patients
in the future. Sounds like that doctor did the best he
could. I don't
see anything wrong with that.
Celeste

Baby,
From what you've written I would conclude that what your naturopath
did for you had nothing to do with your thyroid (since it was already
gone). Sounds like you had a lot of other health problems that
remained after your thyroid problem was dealt with. I'm glad to hear
that you are feeling so much better.
Celeste

that hypothyroidism affects so many people throughout the whole world.
Can't just keep silent upon reading almost all your problems are like
mine. I suffered from this disease for the past 12 years but was not
detected until after March of 2001 when they have to remove my thyroid
for it is fully occupied by solid nodules. It was not even detected by
blood test even before surgery. Only ultrasound gave me the complete
info that's why they resorted to surgery. Like almost all of you your
synptoms are also mine body weakness, fatigue,insomia,feeling very
cold, digestive problem, headache central nervous system disorder,
osteoarthrities,rheumatoid arthrities, pins and needles on my feet and
legs poor memory. After surgery I was prescribed eltroxin 100 mg for
life but I lost my trust in my doctors for I did'nt feel better until
I found a naturophatic doctor who helped me recover
cleansed my intestines by organic miracle tea wherein I flushed out
all the toxins all the accumulated toxins in my my body for the past
56 years since I'm this age. He changed my diet avoiding all kinds of
meat and supported my diet with chlorophyll ccoming from organic green
leafy kamut alfalfa and barley. These changed the blood flowing
through my entire system.These plants contain the essentiaal
nutrients, such as vitamiss, minerals, enzymes, hormones , light
protein needed by our body plus all kinds of fruits available and in
season.. I eat green leafy vegetables but avoid cabbage,
broccoli,wheat and wheat products. We should have a strong IMMUNE
SYSTEM to fight this disease and we could do this by supplying our
bodies with enough RAW MATERIALS meaning aat least 75% of the food we
eat are raw. Fruits are raw and there are some vegetables we can eat
raw. Have your calcuim, magnesuim, soduim potassuim checked up for any
imbalance will cause the disorder. Avoid taking conventional medicine
for in the end you will add other problems to your other eliminatory
organs such as the liver, kidney, bladder. Should you need vitamin
support go natural.

You were simply on the wrong dose. 50 mg is way too much. A naturopath
here recommends 10 mg/day of dhea to thyroid patients for 2 months, then
down to 5 mg. Postmenopausal women benefit from 5-15 mg DHEA per day.
Gracia

This is misinformation and fearmongering. I take progesterone, DHEA,
compounded estrogen and Armour thyroid and B vitamins--I guess too much of
any of those things could have side effects!! You don't want to throw the
baby out with the bathwater!
Gracia

OMG unfortunately the doctor will not know how important it is. DHEA will
give you great relief and help you get well at the right dose, which is
15-25 mg for males. I found it very easy to work with because I went by
how I felt.
You just won't get well until you get the right balance of hormones. Get an
accurate blood test for testosterone and dhea (dhea will raise testosterone
levels and is often all that is needed).
Gracia
Gracia

Hello! Everybody,
I,m new in the group from the Philippines. So surprised to know that
hypothyroidism affects so many people throughout the whole world. Can't just
keep silent upon reading almost all your problems are like mine. I suffered from
this disease for the past 12 years but was not detected until after March of
2001 when they have to remove my thyroid for it is fully occupied by solid
nodules. It was not even detected by blood test even before surgery. Only
ultrasound gave me the complete info that's why they resorted to surgery. Like
almost all of you your synptoms are also mine body weakness,
fatigue,insomia,feeling very cold, digestive problem, headache central nervous
system disorder, osteoarthrities,rheumatoid arthrities, pins and needles on my
feet and legs poor memory. After surgery I was prescribed eltroxin 100 mg for
life but I lost my trust in my doctors for I did'nt feel better until I found a
naturophatic doctor who helped me recover
I was advised that all illnesses originate in the intestines. He cleansed my
intestines by organic miracle tea wherein I flushed out all the toxins all the
accumulated toxins in my my body for the past 56 years since I'm this age. He
changed my diet avoiding all kinds of meat and supported my diet with
chlorophyll ccoming from organic green leafy kamut alfalfa and barley. These
changed the blood flowing through my entire system.These plants contain the
essentiaal nutrients, such as vitamiss, minerals, enzymes, hormones , light
protein needed by our body plus all kinds of fruits available and i