Mark's Blog

I have only posted here once before asking for some info. I was
diagnosed hypo through routine blood tests. No symptoms. A second
blood test confirmed hypo, so my doc put me on levoxyl 75mcg. That
was in July. The other day, I noticed one side of my neck seemed
larger than the other. Went to the doctor who said I have a goiter.
GREAT!!! He is sending me for an ultrasound and more bloodwork. He
said it is very unusual for someone who is hypo to be put on meds and
then develop a goiter. He said maybe I have Hashimotos. I have been
reading all the posts here for a few months, and everyone seems to
have great input, so I am hoping maybe someone will have some
thoughts on my situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Eileen.

Cindy,
I'm not surprised at your reaction to Ortho-Tricyclen. According to my
gynecologist,
they are one of the oldest and harshest birth control pills.
I have also had plenty of bad experiences with military doctors, so I have been
avoiding them for well over a decade now. I pick my own doctors out of what's
available in the civilian arena.
Best wishes,
Celeste

I can have the birth control orthotricylen
OH! I forgot to add, I took ortho-tri for 2 months while on
Synthroid, my doc was trying to get me to have a period. I had some
horrible side effects, it was worse than before I took any medication
at all! (depression, water retention, sapciness, constipation. BC
pills have always had bad effects on me, but this was major). At the
end of 2 months I told my doc that I was throwing them away or
killing myself, and do you know what he said? "Oh yeah, I think I
read soemwhere that when you add birth control you have to adjust
Synthroid upward. didn't I do that?" UUUUGGGGHHHHH!!!! And they
wonder why military doctors have a bad reputation!

I need to find reasons to state how
Hi Hannah,
I know very well how hard it is, for the first couple of years
after I was diagnosed I was in the military health care system
overseas. Talk about a lack of choices! You can't even change
doctors when you want to! It's sooo discouraging to KNOW that
something isn't right and have a doctor tell you that everything is
just fine. It can make you doubt your own sanity but DON'T! Try to
explain to your doctor your symptoms, because if you don't feel well
THAT is the best reason in the world for him or her to help you! If
your doctor is just plain unsympathetic I would really consider
changing doctors. I just started with a new one myself and it's
hard, but at least he will listen to me and is willing to try things
to make me feel better even though my last set of labs was "fine".
He's checking other options too, instead of just assuming that it's
all due to my thyroid. My most recent symptoms have been similar to
what you describe. I just switched from Synthroid to Cytomel and I'm
definitly not 100% but there are definite improvements.
Best of luck, be well and keep writing!
Cindy

a few things i never had tested were adrenals, and antibodies.
If I ask for those, are they done with bloodwork?
also, only ever had estrogen levels checked (said normal)
but nothing else. I want to ask for progesterone check also
but is there anything else I should ask for?
My friend said she thinks I should have a hair test done
(don't know what that would be looking for either)
My dr is happy with my levels though I still have
things that are not right yet, especially hair, headaches,
and eyesight, coldness. OB now said since dr is ok with
my Tsh and such, I can have the birth control orthotricylen
back again with is a huge over load of estrogen.
I do not want to do anything right now feeling the thyroid
levels are not right yet.
IT is hard to get the drs to do a bunch of tests and get
somewhere when they think your levels are good. they see
no reason for it. I need to find reasons to state how
they may help.
Hannah

In a message dated 10/10/2002 10:42:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kautzm@... writes:
Dear Cindy,
It's the same deal as for a regular script only you have to go to a compounding
pharmacy to pick up. Your doctor may already have a relationship with the
pharmacists at a local compounding pharmacy or he might choose to call Dr.
Wilson's favorite in Florida.
Linda

Hi,
Here's an article from Mary's latest eletter about a study done using selenium
to mitigate the effects of thyroiditis.
http://thyroid.about.com/library/news/blseleniumantibodies
Linda

Hi everyone,
I've seen quite a few references to "time release" T3. Where is
everyone getting it, and does it have a name, or are holistic docs
mixing it themselves?
Thanks :)
Cindy

Everything I've read on the internet and in books indicates that
the current theory is that autoimmune disorders tend to run in
packs. In other words, if you have one your chances of getting
another go up. They also tend to run in families. In my family my
father and his brother had type I (autoimmune) diabetes. My dad's
mother, sister and myself all have Hashimoto's.
Did this make sense? If you want to search try going to Google and
enter "autoimmune diseases". But be warned, you'll get a lot!
Cindy
I have a question for y'all. My mother has Sjogren's, I have

I have a question for y'all. My mother has Sjogren's, I have
hashimoto's. Both are autoimmune disorders but does anyone know if
they have anything to do w/ eachother? Like since i have hashi's, am
I more likely to have Sjogren's? Or since my mom has Sjogren's is she
more likely to have thyroid problems? I tried to look at some stuff
on the internet about it but my search skills are much less than
perfect, so all that I found was that Sjogren's may be found by
itself or w/ Hashi's along w/ a list of other autoimmune disorders.
Does anyone know about this or can anyone direct me to somewhere that
might have an answer? Thanks!!
Eden

hi all,
saw this at the link list reading the 'best thyroid books'
page on mary shomans site.
Anyone tried it? Being on her site, do you think
Mary approved of it then? it even claims to not
have to use it forever.
http://www.thymuskinshampoo.com/
hannah

In a message dated 10/8/2002 1:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kautzm@... writes:
Dear Cindy,
This could be T3 instability or it could be too much unconverted T4 in your body
tissues. Or it could be a mix of both. Or it could be somethingtotally
different altogether like some kind of allergic reaction. It's hard to tell.
I wish you had a doctor you could talk to and get some honest, unprejudiced
feedback! Whatever you do, I would suggest youchange one thing at a time, then
give the change a few days or a week so you know what change does what. If you
keep switching meds, trying a different dose one day but not the next, etc.,
it's kind of hard to tell what is acting or reacting in your system. You might
try keeping a little journal where you record what you took when and how you
were feeling each day. Mary Shomon strongly recommends doing this! It's also
good feedback to have for your next doctor's visit!
Hang in there,
Linda

Hi Pam and Linda,and everyone else too,
THANK YOU both for your words of support and encouragement:) I
talked to my doc today, Linda you're gonna love this - he said he
meant for me to stop the Synthroid altogether and wanted me to try
just the Cytomel! Talk about a communication breakdown!
The ironic thing is that outside the bad effects, the headaches and
jitters and that wierd episode yesterday - I feel so much better!
When I'm not feeling totally hyper I can think more clearly, I can
remember what I've done and work, and I'm not grouchy and depressed.
My energy levels have increased significantly. I asked him why we
can't combine the T3 and T4, just lower dosages, and he said
he "doesn't believe in it". He explained his reasoning and even
though I can follow the logic I don't know if I agree with it. He
seems to think that because my body converts the T4 into T3, I don't
really need T4. Wierd! BUT...in the spirit of openmindedness and
because I like him more than I've liked any other docs so far, I'll
give it a go. Besides, it might work! Linda I'm with you, I wish I
could get an UNBIASED opinion! But this doc is honest and willing to
work with me, and that's an improvement. I think if this doesn't
work he might be willing to try combining them. He IS willing to try
things, at least he thinks about stuff as opposed to just swallowing
the info that's fed to him. He also seems willing to try Armour,
which is another option if the straight Cytomel doesn't work.
Besides, Armour is a combo! If all else fails tho I'm bagging the
whole traditional medical scene and finding a naturopath!
Thanks again, and don't be surprised if you keep hearing from me.
Experimenting with medicines really sucks, huh?
Best,
Cindy

--- In hypothyroidism@y..., "nabie67" <nabie67@y...

Hi all,
I was wondering if any of you in this group have received a mailing
from a Sue Walker in Texas about a "new product" for people with low
energy, thyroid problems and a host of other illnesses.
If you haven't, that means this isn't how she got ahold of my name.
I didn't order anything from her or any information about her
product. I'm just wondering how she would target me as a thyroid
patient.
Do you think it could be off of the Mary Shomon site?
Well, let me know.
Renee P.

What sort of bad effects has anyone had with Cytomel or a
Cytomel/Synthroid combo? Yesterday I felt great but this morning I
woke up tired, took my meds (1/2 dose of Cytomel since splitting it
worked great yesterday). Felt great until about 10:30, then all of a
sudden I couldn't hold a train of thought to hold a conversation.
Now it's going on 2pm and I can't stop shaking, I'm depressed enough
to cry, I still can't think straight and my head hurts. I was going
to take the other 1/2 of my Cytomel around 2 but don't know if I
should.
Help please, anybody...?
Thanks,
Cindy

according to my endo., a TSH that jumps around usually indicates autoimmune
thyroid problems such as graves disease or hashimoto's, but one could have
been a lab error. I have hashimoto's and had a TPO antibody test which
revealed that.
HTH,
Karen

I've been having Hypothyroid problems for quite a few years. I even
had my Dr. test my TSH levels about 7 years ago. I was told it was
just PMS....etc.... Recently, about 2 weeks ago, I had my TSH
levels checked again. I also asked to have my T4's checked, advice
given to me by a friend who also has Hypothyroidism. My TSH came
back 1.98....my Dr.'s lab goes up to 4.67. My T4's were .063....lab
goes from .071 to 1.85. Since my T4's were low, I asked for all
other parts of my Thyroid to be checked. These are my results....the
Dr. just hung-up the phone with me.
TSH ( this week ) 4.25 Lab goes from 0.4 to 4.67
T4's ( this week ) .82 Lab goes from .71 to 1.85
T3's 2.9 Lab goes from 2.3 to 4.0
He "said" my FT1's and Free T3's were in the "normal" range.....but
I WILL be getting a copy of my results.
Why are my TSH levels, and T4's levels sooooooo different from "JUST"
last week?? I can't believe the jump up on my TSH and T4's!! Can
someone explain that to me too?? Please??
Thanks in advance, MaL

In a message dated Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mvaldez7@... writes:
Dear Monica,
I suffered for years with allergies along with hypothyroidism, though not so
much from airborne stuff as foods and chemicals. I found a lot of relief from
NAET, a pretty cool, space-age allergy elimination technique. I can eat almost
anything now (except goitrogens, of course)and keep a clear head and be free of
stomachaches. It might be something that could help you. http://www.naet.com/
Linda in LA

I think it is better to feel well though! That's the idea isn't it? I think
it's weird that the doc is stuck on this. Many people get pregnant taking
thyroid meds all at once.
Gracia

People with adrenal problems tend to be underweight. Try to find a topdoc
because another medicne might work much better! You can look on
www.thyroid.about.com or www.armourthyroid.com Many, perhaps most thyroid
patients are untreated, undertreated or on the wrong med.
Gracia

Hi there,
I too wake up in the wee hours of the morning and can't get back to
sleep....very irritating!!. I first I thought it was too much thyroid hormone
but I feel ok during the day and can workout and do all the daily stuff that
needs to be done. After a while I just accepted the fact that I am now an early
morning riser so I make sure that I have a book to read and I have started to
enjoy watching the sun come up and relaxing in a quiet house. Funny enough I
found that once I started not to worry up waking up soooo early that I started
to sleep a little bit later. I also found that having a strong workout schedule
helped a bit also with sleeping more.
Sandy
Eden wrote:Being in college and having thyroid woes is the absolute pits...I
think I'm about go insane. I studied for 5 days for a test, I made
flash cards and everything, I got to the test and remembered nothing,
I made a 68 (luckily there was a 10 point curve). And it's not like
the test was really that hard, I just flat out couldn't remember a
lot of stuff. This is just my latest experience, but I've had quite a
few more recently like this, just forgetting things. Then there's the
lack of concentration. If I didn't know better, I'd seriously think I
have ADD. I had this one professor both semesters last year and he
kept asking me if I had ADD. Oh, and last, but certainly not least,
my sleeping habits. I'm constantly tired, so I go to bed early, try
to get a minimum 8 hours of sleep a night. Going to bed early is not
a problem, getting to sleep is not a problem, but the fact that I
wake up at 4 am after only having 5-6 hours of sleep and find it
impossible to go back to sleep is a problem. Now I know the first 2
things are thyroid related, but has anyone else had the experience of
waking up early in the morning and not being able to get back to
sleep? Is this another thyroid thing? *sighs* I dream about the day
of relief.
Eden

Hi Kelly, I think we've all had doctors who read test results
instead of people! The symptoms you described sound very much like
the way I felt when I was taking too much Synthroid. If you can,
maybe you should think about looking for a different doctor. Yours
doesn't sound right for you.
Cindy, USA

Being in college and having thyroid woes is the absolute pits...I
think I'm about go insane. I studied for 5 days for a test, I made
flash cards and everything, I got to the test and remembered nothing,
I made a 68 (luckily there was a 10 point curve). And it's not like
the test was really that hard, I just flat out couldn't remember a
lot of stuff. This is just my latest experience, but I've had quite a
few more recently like this, just forgetting things. Then there's the
lack of concentration. If I didn't know better, I'd seriously think I
have ADD. I had this one professor both semesters last year and he
kept asking me if I had ADD. Oh, and last, but certainly not least,
my sleeping habits. I'm constantly tired, so I go to bed early, try
to get a minimum 8 hours of sleep a night. Going to bed early is not
a problem, getting to sleep is not a problem, but the fact that I
wake up at 4 am after only having 5-6 hours of sleep and find it
impossible to go back to sleep is a problem. Now I know the first 2
things are thyroid related, but has anyone else had the experience of
waking up early in the morning and not being able to get back to
sleep? Is this another thyroid thing? *sighs* I dream about the day
of relief.
Eden

John
Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean by contacting
you 'on board'?
Thanks.
Ursula

Ursula
Can you contact me on board and I will go through what is avaialbe in the uk.
John C Uk

Hi, I'm new to this site so hopefully this message gets through. I'd
like to know when is the best time to take the thyroid medication. I'm
on 30mg of armour thyroid.
I also suffer from allergies and take Claritin, flonase(for nose) and
patanol(for eyes) every morning. My family physician diagnosed me and
said I could take all my
medication in the morning. Is this okay? Does anyone else suffer from
allerigies too? Have more questions but these will do for now.
Thanks,
Monica

Cindy,
I am the person in the picture.
Much aloha,
Celeste

Hi all. . . I've been a lurker for a while. I'm 24 and was diagnosed with
hypothyroidism at age 10. For most of that period of time, I've taken
synthroid 75. I have ALWAYS been extremely sensitive to cold, have brittle
nails, dry skin, hair loss, etc. No one seems to care about my symptoms,
just the numbers. What's weird is that I weight about 85 lbs. I am NOT
anorexic, and I know that hypothyroid people tend to be overweight. . . no
one has ever explained why I'm backwards. . . genetics, I guess. My
grandmother was tiny. Anyways, my PCP (I haven't seen an endocrinologist
since I was 18), upped my dosage to 88 every other day, alternating with the
75 (and now it's unithroid). For a while, I felt like I was falling apart,
and it took a while to realize my medicine might be doing it. I mean, I
really felt crazy. I cried, I screamed at my parents, I felt reckless and
suicidal (I've always veered towards depression anyways) and my hair started
falling out worse than before. . . I was tired all the time, inexplicably so.
. . not wanting to get out of bed, and my head felt fuzzy. So, I changed my
dosage back to the 75 and I told my doctor I had done so. He said come back
for blood work in a month or so, which I did last week (after feeling TONS
better. . . some mornings I've nearly hopped out of bed, hair isn't falling
out so badly, nails look better, fuzziness in head gone, mostly happy to calm
emotions, etc) and he said he wants me on 75 and 88 again, when, considering
my weight, I believe 88 to be too high. I told him no way, this is what i
felt like before, this is what I feel like now, but he quoted my levels to me
(I don't recall what they were), but because I don't fit into "normal range,"
he's essentially saying screw my symptoms, here's what the numbers say.
Dealing w/ insurance and all that, it's kinda tough to just go out and get a
new doctor. Anyways, I'm just wondering what anyone thinks of this.
Thanks.
Kelly
kadams26@...

Lois have you had any testing for autoimmune problems? A lot of low
thyroiders also have autoimmune... can your dr. test for ANA etc?
xoxo
Kitty

I feel much better taking all the Armour (90 mg) in the a.m. When I split
the dose I am not functional. I thought thyroid hormone was normally
highest in the morning.
Gracia
Me too, I feel non functional. He claims though that it is much healthier
for the body to have a steady dose throughout the day.
And that a patient of his did this, and after ten years of trying to get pg,
she got pregnant the next month!
xoxo
Kitty
ps so I am trying to do the split dosage...

Hey, who's that in the picture? Cindy

Hello
I have recently been diagnosed with hypothyroidism and been
prescribed Eltroxin (I live in the UK). Unfortunately I seem to feel
worse on it. I don't know if it is the lactose (I may be lactose
intolerant) or the thyroxine itself or maybe one of the other
ingredients. Having searched the archive I've noticed that Bio-
throid is recommended by some members.
Would anyone be able to advise me if it is the thyroxine causing
problems or the other ingredients? Is Bio-throid hypoallergenic?
Is it possible to buy it without precription (i've noticed that smart-
drugs.net don't ship to the UK) as I'm not sure if my doc would be
willing to prescribe it?
Many thanks for your help.
Ursula

Thanks, Annah!!
CIndy

Teresa Graedon of the People's Pharmacy. Since we've just been
discussing this, I'll copy the section fromtheir article:
same as those found in fish? I'm a vegetarian,and I have heard that
fish oil is good for arthritis and heart disease.
are "short chain" fats rather than "long chain" like those in fish.
Although the body converts short chain to long chain fats, it's not
that efficient. As a result, you might not get the same benefits from
flaxseed oil as from fish oil. Flaxseed oil shoul be refrigerated
because it goes rancid easily.

Hello,
In today's Sunday Oregonian is a small article with Q&A by Joe and Teresa
Graedon of the People's Pharmacy. Since we've just been discussing this, I'll
copy the section fromtheir article:
Q: Are the omega-3 fatty acids found in organic flaxseed oil the same as those
found in fish? I'm a vegetarian,and I have heard that fish oil is good for
arthritis and heart disease.
A: Although flaxseed oil contains omega-3 fatty acids, they are "short chain"
fats rather than "long chain" like those in fish. Although the body converts
short chain to long chain fats, it's not that efficient. As a result, you might
not get the same benefits from flaxseed oil as from fish oil. Flaxseed oil
shoul be refrigerated because it goes rancid easily.

But really you should be because it's your body!!!! Tsh 3.7 is way too
high. At this point I have no patience with poorly educated docs.
Gracia
I was just

Hi Linda
I am very insterested in this subject
ago I had all my thryoid removed becasue I had thryoid cancer. My
blood test show I am not getting enough T3, but all the doctors will
do is increase my snythroid. It doesn't help! I am going to a new
endocrinologist in 3 weeks. My family doctor has been great but he
feels he doesn't have the skill to treat me and is sending me to a
new endo in our area.. I have ask before for a T4/T3 combo , never
would a doctor give it to me. 1 Year ago I was diagnosed with
fibromyalgia, but last night I read a article by Dr Lowe, (T4
Replacement Therapy; An Obstacle to Recovery from Fibromyalia.) I
feel I really need some extra T3. Please send me any info you may
have on this subject. I have had body scans where I had to stop
taking synthroid for 6 weeks before the scan, take cytomel three
weeks before the scan. And everytime I felt so wonderful on the
cytomel. The last endocrinologist I saw,(3 years ago) when I sat
down in her office the first thing she said to me was "you know the
thyroid has nothing to do with your weight, so if your here for
weight lost
feeling well and have a history of thryoid cancer, she didn't know,
she haven't even open my chart yet. She turn red and was rude on
everything I ask her, so I never went back. When I told my family
doctor he was upset also and told me my weight was the least of my
problem and maybe I catch her on a bad day. At that time There was
not another endo for 100 miles, I haven't seen one for three years.
Crazy thing is I'm not even that overweight. I read part of the new
study about T4/T3 combo , so I have hope maybe Doctors will be more
open minded now and at least try me on it. I feel I have nothing to
lose at this and it's my body anyway. I was told before it was not
safe to do a combo. ~CB

I too saw that ER (I've been an avid watcher since it started). I saw
where he was headed with all of the symptoms as well. I thought it
was a little funny.
Eden

How do you know if you
Hashi's or Hypothyroidism?
Get an antibody test called TPO.

In a message dated Fri, 4 Oct 2002 7:51:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kautzm@... writes:
Dear Cindy,
T3 is the active form of thyroid hormone. T4 is the inactive form. IOW, T4 is
T3 waiting to happen. You can have all the T4 in your body you need and more
and still be hyothyroid if your body tissues are not properly making the
chemical conversion to T3. So, sometimes it is advisable to supplement with a T3
containing medicine. IMO, it is essential in many more cases than a few.
The Cytomel you are taking is pure, instant release T3. I don't know how much
T4 it takes to make as much T3 is in the 25 mcg dose you're taking (I'm away
from my reference books)but I do remember that 25 mcg is a low starting dose
according to the endo I used to see. A lot of people don't like to use Cytomel
because it is instant release. It goes in fast and then wears off quickly and
sometimes the person taking it feels uneven throughout the day. When i was
taking it I got nasty heartburn from it, though I did very much enjoy the
increased mental clarity and energy I had for a few hours.
I could never get my old doc to raise my script though, to 50 mcg because he
kept reading those stupid TSH numbers! My last blood test with him read .07 on
the TSh and he kept telling me I was hyper thyroid. In a pig's eye! I was
freezing to death, slow as molasses, dry skin, hair falling out, falling asleep
while working and driving. And he sez I'm hyper! Well, so much for his mighty
powers of observation!
Then I went to my present holistic doctor and he put me on the Wilson's
treatment. He ditched the TSH tests and began treating my symptoms with pure T3
mixed with a timed release agent. I liked that much better because it goes into
your system evenly throughout the day. I've been on as much as 90 mcg of timed
release T3 twice a day now, I'm doing smaller doses ranging from 7.5 mcg 2x
daily up to about 30 mcg 2x dily and back down again! And me with a TSH of .07!
I'm telling you all of this so maybe you can get the idea that cytomel isn't
dangerous if you need it. If you're not getting your questions answered by your
doc, be more forceful with him/her. Make a list of the questions you need
answered before you go in and write them down and read them off until you get
the information you need. If he won't answer your questions to your
satisfaction, you may need to find another one who does.
Do you have low body temp along with all your other hypo symptoms? That is one
sign you need extra T3 and maybe your body isn't converting T4 to T3 properly.
You might consider a trial of one of the T4/T3 combo medicines like Armour
thyroid.
I wish luck in finding the best medicinal balance for your optimum thyroid
health!
Linda in LA

Hi everyone, sorry to keep on posting on the same old thing. I'm
getting concerned tho..I was surfing and read that T3 is 4 times
fmore potent than T4. Well I'm on 112 mcg of Synthroid and my labs
were good but memory loss depression blah blah...you probably all
read this before in my previous posts. ANYHOW...he added 25 mcg
Cytomel, increasing to 50 in 2 weeks. So, 112 synthroid plus 25
cytomel, which has the effectiveness of 100 synthroid, is this like
being on 212 mcg of Synthroid? If so, I' in trouble, my TSH was
only .7 to begin with! I don't remember the exact numbers but my T3
was in the lower third of normal and my T4 was smack in the middle.
I really expected him to lower my Synthroid when the cytomel
started. To add to the confusion, he has me on Zoloft, which I'm
going to stop since he started me on the cytomel. I can't tell which
edication is doing what, Iand I didn't really want to be on the
zoloft (although I hate to admit this, it did help). Today I took
both tho and had an awful headache and blurred vision most of the
day, worse in the morning (about 2 hours after taking meds).
Does anyone else take both t4 and t3, and what sort of dosages is
everyone on? I didn't actually talk to my doc I talked to his nurse,
and I'm wondering if someone forgot to tell me something (like maybe
lay off the Synthroid)!
Sorry to harp on the same old thing, thanks for the help!
Best,
Cindy

Anyone catch this?
The young med student diagnosed a woman with hypothyroidism even
though the "all powerful and knowing" Carrie kept saying she was
crazy. I was so proud of myself for picking up on where he was
heading with his diagnosis. My husband thought I was crazy.
I love it when they do that- pick diseases and just mention them on
there!!
Renee P.

Cindy,
Yes, I also was having spells of vertigo when my thyroid medication
was changed. I had no idea what was causing it, but finally when I
went back to the doctor for thyroid follow up he did some labs and
reduced my dosage. Then everything was fine again after a few weeks.
If you're adding Cytomel is your doctor reducing the dosage on your
other thyroid med?
Best wishes,
Celeste

In a message dated Fri, 4 Oct 2002 9:26:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aisadora@... writes:
Dear Andrea,
I agree with you completely! Having only spotty health insurance coverage over
the past 30 years, I have gotten used to paying for my own health care expenses.
Now, I have insurance but just because a particular doctor I want to go to isn;t
on the magic list doesn't necessarily stop me from consulting him or her. I'm
not rich either! But I do consider my health and well being worth the money,
because if I'm not well, I won't be in any condition to do what it takes to keep
on earning income to pay for anything, let alone health insurance premiums!
Linda

I do not have insurance , so when I see a doctor I pay out of pocket.
This has some benefits, belive it or not . First of all because I do
not need a referal to see an endo or my internist . Infact in may
when I knew I was too sick to go on any longer w/ out treatment .I
called an internal physician and set up an appointment .Just like
that.
It cost me 90 dollars for my initial visit . And was worth every
penny! I post this because sometimes when I read posts , I think ,
Why not just go out side of your insurance ? I know that isnt
possible in every situation , but I just thought Id put it out there!!
Blessings, Andrea

Cindy,
I started Cytomel for a short time in January, but my body didn't tolerate
it. I was more anxious and my heart raced. It made me feel wired. I hope
you have good results.
Karen

When I posted this question I belive I said homeopathic supplements
as well as my Rx meds . Not instead of them . Also to answer the
reply " Why not take more armour ?" Simply put becuase I am not in
control of how much Rx medication my doctor gives me. I was just
pleased that he wanted to get my levels down ( TSH 3.7 ) and it was
he who added armour to my levoxyl . He refered me to an endo that I
see at the end of the month . Since I am not feeling well in the past
weeks I thought Id look at alternatives ways that I can affect my own
health . That is why I posted the question , but oh well?? Andrea

Finally, after 3 years of asking differents doctors, my new one has
prescirbed cytomel, 25 mcg for 2 weeks then increase to 50 mcg in
addition to the 113 mcg of Synthroid I've been on for over a year.
This is in response to severe memory loss/slow thinking, persistent
fatigue, depression, and water retention. Has anyone added T3 after
being on T4 for a period of time? If so, how long did it take you to
start feeling better if you did?
Thanks,
Cindy/USA

I just did a comparison and liked fish oil best, also seem to need borage
oil, 240 GLA.
Gracia

Why not just take (enough) Armour?
Gracia

Has anyone had a loss of peripheral vision? I had a loss of peripheral
vision at the same time as I had some hearing loss recently...
Any ideas?
Kitty

I am wondreing if any one has tried using a homeopathic thyroid
glandular support in combination w/ their Rx meds . Ofcourse not
taken at the same time as Rx meds . Any thoughts ? The one that Ive
seen contains Thyoidinum 6x , 12x and 30x . I guess Im desperatly
trying to feel better . Now taking 125 mcg of levoxyl and 15 mgs of
armour . I feel pretty bad now and dont see a Dr again until the 29th
. Infact I slept most of today and Im cold again even though it was
in the 90s today ! ??? Andrea

In a message dated 10/2/2002 6:56:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
k_slinger@... writes:
Dear Eden,
Hashi's and unspecified hypothyroidism was my initial diagnosis a year and a
half ago when I first consulted a local endo. He put me on T4/T3 combo that
initially helped but then I felt crummy again. Since my TSH test dropped to
.07, he did not feel comfortable with raising my meds so he switched me to
Armour thyroid at my request. I was very surprised to become very ill with
that medicine and at that point felt I had no hope of getting well.
So, I switched docs and found a holistic doc who was very interested in the
fact that my daily average body temp was running 97.2 degrees. I was
freezing all the time! Holistic doc immediately began treating me for
Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome and I have been on timed-release T3 only since
then. Today my average daily body temp runs prettly consistently 98.5-98.6
and I feel 95% better! Presently, holistic doc has me cleansing my liver of
toxic estrogens since estrogen and thyroid hormone are antagonists. It is
working little by little.
I would encourage you to do as much as you can to find good treatment for
yourself! One of the signs of WTS is the problem you mentioned where you do
well on thyroid meds at first then feel crummy again. I can't say for sure
you have it because there are other things as well, but it might be worth a
look at the website to see what you think and if it might be a fit for you.
You have so very much of life ahead that I would hate to see you limp along
like I did and a few others on this list did for decades before you find a
thyroid treatment that works and gives you back a quality life! <A
HREF="www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com"
www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com</A
Good luck and let us know how you're doing!
Linda in LA

Oh, I forgot to explain what me still being under my parents
authority has to do with this. I still have frozen fingers and toes,
achey sore legs, and I'm still sluggish. They think it's just me
being a wimpy complainer, they don't know how it really is. They
don't really listen when I explain myself either, even though I have
info from medical journals and stuff.
Eden

I was diagnosed with hashimoto's about a year ago and did some
research on it to learn a little about it. I had the radioactive
iodide treatment and now I'm on synthroid. I was just wondering if
anyone has had this for a while and has any advice for me. I'm only
almost 20, so I'm still sort of under my parents authority. I've been
on synthroid since April. At first my leg cramps and aches weren't so
bad and I had more energy, but it's all kind of declined now...I have
less energy now and aches again. Any advice?

I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's about a year ago, right when I was
turniing 19. Pretty quickly I did internet research and found the
about.com website, and signed up for the thyroid newsletter. I find
it very useful and informative and I, too, saw the article about soy
and the thyroid, along with lots of other helpful info. I certainly
recommend this newsletter.

Hello,
Here's a link to a very good article from Mary Shomon's latest e-newsletter
about soy foods and their suppressant effect on the thyroid gland. Share it
with people you love!
<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.west\
onaprice.org%2Fsoy%2Fdarkside.html"
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.westonapr
ice.org%2Fsoy%2Fdarkside.html</A
Linda in LA

I feel much better taking all the Armour (90 mg) in the a.m. When I split
the dose I am not functional. I thought thyroid hormone was normally
highest in the morning.
Gracia

In a message dated 10/2/2002 1:19:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dezign4you@... writes:
I took flax seed oil for a couple of years before going on the fish oil. I
did not notice any anti-depressant effects from the flax seed oil. I also
tried grinding my own flax seed for awhile because the oil in the capsules
supposedly goes rancid so quickly. That was a total pain and I think I would
probably have to be eating it at every meal to get enough oil for my body's
needs. I like the fish oil caps much better!
Linda in LA

Hi,
Saw my doc today, and he wants me to take 30 mg of Armour twice a day, rather
than one 60 mg in the morning.
I have tried this before... and it left me feeling really really sluggish.
Without telling him, I went back to taking 60 in the morning, and feel pretty
good on that.
Anyone else have to split their dose?
He says it is very dangerous to take thyroid once a day because it can
hyperstimulate your entire body. And your body gets a yoyo effect of
thyroid every day with the once a day scenario, and he said it has a more
even blood level at twice a day, so all systems function better.
Any ideas on this?
Kitty

Any thoughts on fish oil compared to flax see oil?

In a message dated 10/1/2002 7:36:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kautzm@... writes:
Dear Cindy,
Something I've found useful to help keep the edge off feeling depressed is
fish oil capsules. Fish oil is a known anti-depressant and many pDocs who
are aware, use it with their mentally ill patients who are not too severely
depressed. Personally, I don't think I'm clinically depressed but especially
during the winter I feel I need more help than just sunshine or exercise.
Fish oil seems to help out! In fact, I recently ran out and couldn't find
the brand that works for me for a couple of weeks and I am noticing I don't
feel as able to roll with the punches of life as much as I was when I was
taking it every day.
If you decide to try fish oil, pay attention to your stomach! It can
sometimes be irritating in high dosages. Also, there are brands that give
you more DHA which has the anti-depressant effect--Jarrow Max DHA is one of
those and is a very good deal, pricewise. You have to take fewer capsules.
Lastly, some people are sensitive to fish oil; I am! But feeling in better
spirits was a benefit too good to pass up just because of a sensitive tummy.
So, I found a brand called Fisol made by Nature's Way that is specially
coated so it doesn't break down in the stomach but breaks down in the small
intestine. That seems to work for me and I love feeling happier on something
I know my body needs anyway.
Good luck with what you decide,
Linda in LA

In a message dated 10/2/2002 9:14:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sweet_wyfe@... writes:
Dear Jamie,
This is good news indeed! Good for you to keep trying and to keep asking for
what you want and your body needs until you got what you've wanted! May you
feel better and better with each passing day!
Linda in LA

Cindy,
It sounds like you have a pretty decent dr. Good for you. I would at least
wait to find out the whole picture before filling that prescription. I'm a
big believer that depression is USUALLY, not always, related to what we are
put through with this disease. I couldn't feel happy after I gained 50
pounds and felt like crap ALL the time. JMO
Karen
I haven't made a decision yet, I
don't like the idea much though. Thoughts, anyone?

After two years of battling with doctors, I have finally gotten the
natural thyroid that I was begging for. My doctor was partly right,
it is not readily available in our area except at one pharmacy, but
he did the footwork and found it for me and got my prescription right
away.
When I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, I was also diagnosed with
several other things and had become overwhelmed. There was a lot
more to the diseases I deal with than I had ever anticipated, but I
am thankful for groups like this one that lend support and
information to help us do for ourselves what needs to be done. It
has taken me this long to find the information I needed to become,
shall we say, persuasive *grins* and to find the right doctor. I'm
gradually knocking out the issues as best as I can and am thrilled
that things are going my way finally. This may not be the cure all,
but boy does it feel like a step in the right direction!
It's been a very long and trying year, but I'm thankful that things
are starting to look up! I feel really silly being this excited over
one little pill, but it's a step in the right direction I hope.
Thank you all for the support you lend everyone and myself.
Jamie

Found this chart that was published awhile back....
Products with 80% T4 and 20% T3
Bio-Tech Thyroid (all in mcg)
1/4 grain 2.3 T3 + 9.3 T4 = T4 equivalency of 18.5 mcg
1/2 grain 4.6 T3 + 18.6 T4 = T4 equivalency of 37 mcg
1 grain 9.2 T3 + 37.1 T4 = T4 equivalency of 73.9 mcg
1-1/2 grains 13.9 T3 + 56.4 T4 = T4 equiv. of 112mcg
2 grains 16.8 T3 + 68.4 T4 = T4 equiv. of 135.6 mcg
3 grains 27.8 T3 + 111.4 T4 = T4 equiv. of 222.6 mcg
4 grains 36 T3 + 144.5 T4 = T4 equiv. of 288.5 mcg
Thyrolar: (all in mcg)
1/4 grain = 3.1 T3 + 12.5 T4 = T4 equiv. of 24.9 mcg
1/2 grain = 6.25 T3 + 25 T4 = T4 equiv. of 50 mcg
3/4 grain = 9.375 T3 + 37.5 T4 = T4 equiv. of 75 mcg
1 grain = 12.5 T3 + 50 T4 = T4 equivalency of 100 mcg
1 1/2 grains = 18.75 T3 + 75 T4 = T4 equiv. of 150 mcg
1 3/4 grains = 21.88 T3 + 88 T4 = T4 eq. of 175.52 mcg
2 grains = 25 T3 + 100 T4 = T4 equiv. of 200 mcg
Armour: (all in mcg)
1/4 grain=15mg = 2.25 T3 + 9.5 T4 = T4 eq. of 18.5 mcg
1/2 grain=30mg = 4.5 T3 + 19 T4 = T4 eq. of 37 mcg
3/4 grain=45mg = 6.75 T3 + 28.5 T4 = T4 eq.of 55.5 mcg
1 grain=60mg = 9 T3 + 38 T4 = T4 eq. of 74 mcg
1 1/2 grains=90mg = 13.5 T3 + 57 T4 = T4 eq.of 111 mcg
2 grains=120mg = 18 T3 + 76 T4 = T4 eq. of 148 mcg
3 grains=180mg = 27 T3 + 114 T4 = T4 eq. of 222 mcg
In order to change the T4/T3 ratio in the above
products, a small amount of T4 med could be added to
shift the ratio from 80/20 to 90/10
T4 only plus T3 only meds (eg. Unithroid, Synthroid
plus Cytomel) with 90% T4 and 10% T3
25mcg of T4+ 2.5mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 35mcg
50mcg of T4 + 5mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 70mcg
75mcg of T4 + 7.5mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 105mcg
100mcg of T4 + 10mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 140mcg
112mcg of T4 + 11.2mcg of T3 = T4 equiv. of 156.8mcg
125mcg of T4 + 12.5mcg of T3 = T4 equiv. of 175mcg
137mcg of T4 + 13.7mcg of T3 = T4 equiv. of 191.8mcg
150mcg of T4 + 15mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 210mcg
175mcg of T4 + 17.5mcg of T3 = T4 equiv. of 245mcg
200mcg of T4 + 20mcg of T3 = T4 equivalency of 280mcg
This chart was prepared by Leslie Blumenberg.

John,
I know I've become sensitive to more stuff over the
past few years, I had my thyroid removed in '98 due to
cancer. Perfumes bother me, gas, diesel & propane
fumes, etc. I went for allergy testing & was allergic
to nothing! Although the allergist said I could have
sensitivies, but not allergies. I can only wear 1
particular kind of perfume myself. I've just learned
to avoid the things that both me, the best I can.
For you maybe the lowest dose of T3 could be more
helpful. I know I was on Armour for months at
different doses, then went back to Levoxyl, w/ 5mcg T3
2x day, still having some hyper symptoms, & have
settled at 150mcg of Levoxyl w/ 1-5mcg T3 daily and
feel best at this dose.
Pam

Don't feel stupid, cuz I thought it was cute. However I don't think the new
doc is cute. This is typical s#$t. Wants to give you all kinds of drugs
cuz he doesn't understand how T3 works. If you get Armour or enough T3,
you don't need antidepressants. This doc does not have enough knowledge
and won't be able to practice like this much longer, because it is too
expensive in the long run. At the very least, give him Mary Shomon's book
to read.
Gracia

John, you need to get the right amount of Armour with testosterone (NOT
synthetic) to feel well. Armour works with other hormones. You might need
adrenal support as Celeste suggests. 1) why doesn't your doctor have a
clue about the endocrine system? 2) why aren't you understanding? You
cannot take a drug for every symptom, you have to treat the whole system.
Armour is not too strong, you simply need other things with it. I suspect
you have been hypo your whole life.
Gracia
the next things to rule out, to be truthful I am at a bit of a loss as what
to suggest and will be clutching at straws.
this has not been a problem in the past, It all started when I had my
Thyroid removed . I also use to suffer with A/fib but this has been cleared
up now with a Procedure which has burned away the faulty parts in my ATria.
feeling best described as suffering with the Flu and a hang over .and going
to the Gym for a work out I then noticed that I became sensitive to smells ,
perfume became intolerable and my right lung became so itchy that I could
not breath, I was told to up my Inhaled steroids but that was no good. I
even tried an anti allergy drug but that only sort of helped. The only thing
that stopped the itching was Steroids 30 mg a day, this of course I cannot
take for the rest of my life.
three weeks then my heart went into pupation's and I became short of breath,
I went back onto solo T4 and here I am I feel like crap.

GEEEEEZ, I feel stupid now! I did "dump the doc", went to a new one
yesterday. I like him a lot more. He did a blood draw, of course,
spent over an hour with me. I asked him about adding cytomel. He
said some of his patients are on it, that he doesn't agree with it
much but it seems to be helping them. He took the time to explain
that treating Hashi's is a little different in that my thyroid will
sputter into life occasionally and that the ups and downs are to be
expected a little bit. But he agreed to try t-3, I want to wait
until my blood work is back as he's testing me for many other
things. My main complaint these days is pain in my hands and wrists,
which he palpitated and said he's sure I've got the early stages of
arthritis (osteo, not rhuematoid thank God). He wants to rule out
carpal tunnel, so I go for that on Thurs. My other "biggies" these
days are memory loss (getting very severe, to the point of causing
fights with me and my husband) and blurring vision, and extreme
irritability. He's concerned that it could be neurological so is
sending me for an MRI as well. But he was totally open to the idea
that it could just be my thyroid, just wants to rule out other
stuff. He also asked if I was depressed. I said I didn't think so.
He VERY DIPLOMATICALLY and empathetically suggested I try anti-
depressants, if for nothing else then to keep me (and my family) sane
until it's figured out. I took the scrip but I haven't had it
filled. I don't think I'm depressed and told him so. He said ok and
that it was totally my decision. I haven't made a decision yet, I
don't like the idea much though. Thoughts, anyone?

John,
Low testosterone would not be a side effect of taking thyroxin. Your
testosterone *might* return to normal level once your thyroid
medication is correct, but it depends on other factors as well. I
would ask your doctor about taking some form of testosterone until
your level is back to normal. Then, of course, you'd want to keep
checking it from time to time.
It also sounds like you are having adrenal problmes. This needs to be
addressed first (before you get treatment for thyroid or anything
else). Please try to get your doctor to test your adrenal function
(not just cortisol but also DHEA, aldosterone, and others) to see if
there is anything out of balance there. Try looking at the following
web sites to learn more about the adrenal gland and possible problems:
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C17649.html
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa052801a.htm
Best wishes,
Celeste

quite low I have not the figures to hand except for the obvious side
effect could this have any thing to with seemingly having a side
effect to Thyroxin. Or when the thyroxin gets back into my body will
the levels get back to normal.
with as much information as possible.. I seem to be come really
allergic to the world since I stopped taking waferin last November. I
have tried everything Armour, T3-t4 combinations they all are fine
then after two weeks my right
Astm a drugs the only thing that works is a big dose of Pregnisalone
not sure of the spelling.
levels can cause allergies to show though.!! But there again I have
been told I have low Magnesium levels and if you look at that its the
same side effects.

Hi this is a message for Celeste, My Testosterone is low in fact quite low I
have not the figures to hand except for the obvious side effect could this have
any thing to with seemingly having a side effect to Thyroxin. Or when the
thyroxin gets back into my body will the levels get back to normal.
I Celeste I am going to my Endo on Wednesday I Want to get armed with as much
information as possible.. I seem to be come really allergic to the world since I
stopped taking waferin last November. I have tried everything Armour, T3-t4
combinations they all are fine then after two weeks my right
lungs becomes so itchy I cant sleep. I have tried all the normal Astm a drugs
the only thing that works is a big dose of Pregnisalone not sure of the
spelling.
I have looked on web today and saw a page saying that low cortosol levels can
cause allergies to show though.!! But there again I have been told I have low
Magnesium levels and if you look at that its the same side effects.
any ideas, clues.
Best regards
john C UK
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without retaining a copy.
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Hi Team.
I have a consultation with my endo this Wednesday and need some advice on the
next things to rule out, to be truthful I am at a bit of a loss as what to
suggest and will be clutching at straws.
A little bit of Background I do suffer with Asthma and have allergies but this
has not been a problem in the past, It all started when I had my Thyroid removed
. I also use to suffer with A/fib but this has been cleared up now with a
Procedure which has burned away the faulty parts in my ATria.
Last November I noticed I started getting cramps in my legs and Neck, The
feeling best described as suffering with the Flu and a hang over .and going to
the Gym for a work out I then noticed that I became sensitive to smells ,
perfume became intolerable and my right lung became so itchy that I could not
breath, I was told to up my Inhaled steroids but that was no good. I even tried
an anti allergy drug but that only sort of helped. The only thing that stopped
the itching was Steroids 30 mg a day, this of course I cannot take for the rest
of my life.
I have been told I am short of Magnesium but that did not work
Armour was too strong. The I was put on a T3 T4 drugs, I was ok for about three
weeks then my heart went into pupation's and I became short of breath, I went
back onto solo T4 and here I am I feel like crap.
I feel like I am in Hypo but then I become hper very quickly.
If feels that I am getting the drug into my body and converting what ever it
converts.
They did find on my last test that I was very low on testosterone.
I have no more theories. but a few suggestions.
My adrenal glands may need help.
I may be allergic to the make up of the tablet.#
Or I am going mad.
any suggestions please reply..
John C
UK
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has anyone ever heard of this. I'm doing research on it b/c my friend
recommended a natural talc free baby powder recipe with this in it and I'm
finding interesting things regarding general health about this stuff.
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/clay.htm
Here's one paragraph though that caught my eye:
In 'Our Earth Our Cure', Dextreit writes that that clay stimulates the
deficient organ and help the restoration of the failing function. Clay is a
powerful agent of stimulation, transformation and transmission. Clay
contains highly active ingredients, able to induce cellular rebuilding and
to hasten all organic processes. He also says that clay acts with wisdom -
it goes to the unhealthy spot. Used internally, whether absorbed orally,
anally or vaginally, clay goes to the place where harm is, there it lodges,
perhaps for several days, until finally it draws out the pus, black blood,
etc. with its evacuation.
Sounds interesting.... like I said I just learned about this, so I'm not
promoting it.
Karen

http://messenger.msn.com
I used this w/ all of my children and it is extreemly healing ,on
little bottoms as well as rashes of any kind.You can even make a
paste and put it on bites . Andrea

Yeah, I went surfing again and found it this time on my own. He is a
GP, so I guess I'm not too surprised, but I'm certainly not going to
get too worked up over this since he is the first one who has
listened to me and even come remotely close to offering what I want.
I'm so used to being shot down by doctors the minute I say anything
about "natural" anything. Whether it's herbs in lieu of HRT or
natural thyroid. But I will be in touch with him this next week and
I'm willing to bet (because I think he's a good doc, just outta
practice with some of this as it's not his field) that I'll
have my natural thyroid before the week is out.I do appreciate the
feedback though, I didn't think it was logical for forest to stop
making a medication that so many are on.
Just one more question? Has anyone opted for Nature-throid as it
contains no corn binders (from what I've read anyway) or would that
make much difference in a low carbohydrate diet? Just something I
was thinking about. Most of us work too hard at losing weight to be
foiled by something silly like that.
Thank you!
Jamie

--- In hypothyroidism@y..., alison cooper <spindrift_ali@y...
Hi Ali,
thanks for writing back! I t sounds like we have VERY similar
problems. The hardest thing for me to deal with is the memory loss
and general mental sluggishness. I'm going to see a new doc tomorrow
morning. If he isn't familiar with combining T3 and T4 I'm going to
push for a referral to an endo. (Something I too have been refused
more than once).
Keep your chin up and I will too!
Best,
Cindy (Wisconsin, USA)

Hi,
I've not tried the product you mentioned, but..... I purchased a magnetic
underlay for our bed about 2 months ago. Got it mainly for my man who has a
little arthritis. Talk about sleep. Neither of us have slept that well for
years. Even if I have to get up for the bathroom in the middle of the night
I go straight back to sleep. Sleep right through the night and wake up
feeling great!
Having slight hypothyroidism, I often suffer from cold feet, especially in
bed at night. Not any more!!! In fact we have not turned the electric
blanket on since we've had the underlay. (We're in NZ and it's the tail end
of winter where we get the coldest storms and live in a 100 year old house
with poor heating). Seems as soon as I get into bed my body starts to warm
up itself. I get to a comfortable warm and stay that way all night, not to
hot & not too cold. Just a perfect temperature for me. Brian says the same.
Strangely enough Brian says he's had more aches & pains in the first month
since we started using the underlay, but he's had no complaints since. He's
also had no signs of wheezing or asthma even when he's been around his
known triggers. I've has no eczema which I've had this time of year for the
last 20 years. (Could be coincidence, but interesting to note) I believe
the theory is the magnets stimulates the blood flow which helps healing.
It's not been a short term fix but for us but has had definite benefits
over the 2 months we've had it.
I'm buying them for family for Xmas now. Can't recommend them highly enough.
Regards
Linda
Feeling great!!!

Hi Cindy,
I too have Hashi's, I was diagnosed with HypoT in Jan
'02 but wasn't diagnosed with hashi's until late July
'02 and that was only because I requested a thyroid
antibody test.
I am on 75mcg of Levothyroxine. I can empathise with
how you are feeling as after nearly a year I still do
not feel stable and I feel I am in a constant battle
with my GP over treatment. My blood tests too have
been within 'normal' range to which I have argued as
although they are within normal range my levels are on
the way up ie; my TSH went from 0.3 to 2.49 in 3
months.
I have managed to get prescribed (finally) frusemide
20mg daily to help cope with the horrendous water
retention I have, even then I still feel a little
'water logged' and the retention bothers me a great
deal. The forgetfulness got so bad with me I had to
take a couple of weeks off work until I got to see my
doc to which the response was her wanting to reduce my
thyroxine but I dug my heels in and said no. As for
the blurring vision I have that too and I got my eyes
tested to which I was diagnosed with Keretoconus a
degenerative condition where the cornea becomes cone
shaped and very thin. Although no one knoews what
causes Keretoconus it has been suggested that hormones
could be responsible (not wishing to panic anyone,
this is a rare condition that only affects 1 in 3000
to 1 in 10000 people, so I think I was just unlucky
with that one)
Anyway I have repeatedly asked for my T3 to be checked
and to be tried on a T3 supplement. I was informed
that it was not routine to check for T3 levels if the
T4 was normal, so therefore I have been kept on
Levothyroxine and now the Frusemide (which again I had
to ask for) I have also repeatedly asked to be
referred to an Endo consultant and my request has been
refused.
I would also be interested to hear if anyone with
hashi's is being treated with combined T3/T4 therapy
and if this has stabilised their condition. If it has
then I will try my GP yet again for a change in
treatment.
ali
--- Cindy Kautzmann <kautzm@...
<HR
<html
<tt
Hi to all,<BR
<BR
&nbsp; I've also been "lurking" on this
board for a week or so.&nbsp; I was <BR
diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis in 2000, and
have was on <BR
Synthroid until a couple of weeks ago, when my
pharmacy switched to <BR
Levoxyl (cheaper I guess). I was on a rollercoaster of
symptoms and <BR
dosages for about a year and a half before I finally
leveled off.&nbsp; <BR
I've been on .113 mcg for about a year.&nbsp; I was
feeling fine except <BR
for one bout last spring during which I had severe
exhaustion and <BR
joint pain, and chest pain.&nbsp; The chest pain was
explained with 2 <BR
duodenal ulcers, by the time I got to this point the
joint pain and <BR
exhaustion was ending.&nbsp; My thyroid function tests
were normal at the <BR
time.<BR
<BR
&nbsp; Now, for the last couple of months the joint
pain and fatigue have <BR
become severe again.&nbsp; Also serious water
retention (that's new) and <BR
constipation,&nbsp; occasional blurred vision, and
worst of all <BR
forgetfulness that's really scaring me.&nbsp; <BR
<BR
&nbsp; It seems like a lot of the posts are from
people with WTS.&nbsp; Does <BR
anyone with Hashi's have any experience with combining
T3 and T4?&nbsp; <BR
I'm wondering if that would help me.<BR
<BR
Thanks,<BR
<BR
Cindy<BR
<BR
&nbsp; <BR
<BR
</tt
<br
<tt
To unsubscribe, send blank message to:

you might need other supportive hormones (dhea, progesterone). Are you on
bc pills?
Gracia in ME

Hi all,
My server was acting up earlier this evening. Sorry that it sent multiple
copies of the last post!
Linda

In a message dated 9/27/2002 4:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sweet_wyfe@... writes:
Jamie--
ROTFAL!!!! This is SO UNTRUE!!! Sometimes it just amazes me what doctors
will say to get out of prescribing something! You can buy Armour Thyroid
anywhere! Over the internet, from Canada, from Mexico, from your own local
drugstore (with a prescription, of course).
Here is a link to Forest Pharmaceuticals, the manufacturers of the drug.
Tbis page tells all about Armour and also has a referral site where you can
find a doctor near you who will prescribe it. <A
HREF="http://www.armourthyroid.com/index.html"
http://www.armourthyroid.com/index.html</A
Linda in LA

Hi to all,
I've also been "lurking" on this board for a week or so. I was
diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis in 2000, and have was on
Synthroid until a couple of weeks ago, when my pharmacy switched to
Levoxyl (cheaper I guess). I was on a rollercoaster of symptoms and
dosages for about a year and a half before I finally leveled off.
I've been on .113 mcg for about a year. I was feeling fine except
for one bout last spring during which I had severe exhaustion and
joint pain, and chest pain. The chest pain was explained with 2
duodenal ulcers, by the time I got to this point the joint pain and
exhaustion was ending. My thyroid function tests were normal at the
time.
Now, for the last couple of months the joint pain and fatigue have
become severe again. Also serious water retention (that's new) and
constipation, occasional blurred vision, and worst of all
forgetfulness that's really scaring me.
It seems like a lot of the posts are from people with WTS. Does
anyone with Hashi's have any experience with combining T3 and T4?
I'm wondering if that would help me.
Thanks,
Cindy

they always tell me to wait a week as well, but I ALWAYS call after 2
business days and ask for my results over the phone. Just be adamant if
they give you any problems.
Karen
He said the results would be available next week.

My GP is more than willing to give me natural thyroid, but said that
armour is no longer made.. what are my other options? If anyone
could help me out with the names of some other natural thyroid (both
T4 and/or T3 options are greatly appreciated!), I
would greatly appreciate it. And BTW.. what is everyone who was on
armour doing now if they have stopped making it??
Thank you,
Jamie

Hi I would ask your doc to run some basic auto immune tests like ANA ATA
etc.
xoxo
Kitty

I'll look for the book at my library. Until then, what does she
suggest for someone being hypothyroid? What form does she prefer(
liquid or other?)?
Renee P.

Until I have read Dr. Hulda Clark's Book "The Cure For
All Diseases", I had the same problem you seem to
have. In her book she recommends supplements that she
had tested on her patients. Maybe you want to get her
book. If not, let me know and I'll tell you, what I
am taking... Ever since I followed her suggestions, I
feel much better... hypothyroidism was not my only
problem...
Ingrid

Hi all,
I hate to keep bringing this up....but I need some outside advice
about this.
I'm considering ordering some vitamins( Biometics, maybe you've heard
of them?) which I've taken before and they really did make me feel
better. A 1 month supply of the Multi-vitamin/energy package, costs
like $80. I think that is VERY steep, as does my husband.
The company's claim to fame is that they use Emusol( apparently they
patented it and are the only ones to use it) micellation which turns
fat soluble vitamins/minerals into water soluble vitamins. All of
their supplements are either liquid or are powder form which is put
into water/juice.
My heart wants to get them again BUT my brain wants to keep looking
for another option. If there is something out there that makes you
feel really good/energetic, does it matter how much it costs?
Thoughts please....
Renee P.

In a message dated 9/25/2002 8:46:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sadiev03@... writes:
Dear Sadie,
What is your average daily temperature running? Is it low? A good way to
find out is to use a new gallium (or never dropped mercury) thermometer and
take your temperature three times a day for three-five days and then average
the three daily temps together. This gives you an overall picture of what
your temperature is doing throughout the day and, unlike the BBT, you don't
have to worry about not getting out of bed early in the morning when you have
to pee, nor do you have to know where you are in your menstrual cycle to be
able to understand the temp.
Linda

Lynn,
I've been taking T4 only for several years and I do not have a weight
problem. In fact, I'm leaner than average. And I feel pretty darn
good, too. That doesn't mean it will work the same for you, though.
You might need a combination of T4 and T3.
What do you mean exactly by "eat correctly?" What kinds of foods do
you eat? What percentage of your calories are from carbs? from
protein? from fats? Do you eat snacks between meals to help keep your
blood sugar stable? What do you do other than weight training?
Best wishes,
Celeste
P.S. I am also a certified (American Council on Exercise) personal
fitness trainer.

Hi all, I finally went to the doctor today. After showing him my
symptoms list, he decided to send me to the lab to get a blood test.
He said the results would be available next week. He ordered a TSH
and a "free T4" test. In a way, I hope that I do have it because I'm
sick of trying to find out what's wrong with me. I'd just like to
get on the road to recovery soon. A couple of things surprised me at
my visit. My blood pressure was 140/72, which is somewhat odd.
Also, my temp. was down to 96* F (late afternoon). I knew it was
low, but not that low at that time of day. Anyways, I hope this next
week goes fast.

Karen,
Does your doctor mean to stop taking armour and start taking just a
T4 medicine? Because that would make me nervous. Your T3 is okay
now BECAUSE OF THE MEDICINE. It is reasonable to take a T4 in
addition to the armour (I'm considering doing that myself because my
T3 is 4.2 and the top of the range is 4.2, but my T4 is 1.1 and the
range top is 2.0 and I still don't feel great).
Of course, some people do quite well with a T4 only, so maybe you
would thrive on that (I've become disbelieving because of my own bad
experience, which is not necessarily the norm).
Good luck,
Shimiah

Okay, here they are:
TSH: 2.06
(Free) T-4 = 1.6
I am SO pumped! I can only hope I can stay this way for awhile since
we are planning to get pregnant again very soon.
Renee P.

I know It's been a weird journey with these meds. I was on pure T3
(wilson's) because my body temp was between 95.7 and 96.9
consistently and it brought it up to 97.9-98.6 so it seemed to remedy
the situation and I did feel better though not 100 percent so the dr.
told me to try armour since it had a mix of both, I was just
diagnosed with epstein barr and believed to have had it for at least
5 years so I don't know anymore what is causing what. It does seem to
me that the medication has helped how I felt though not with the
weight - no matter how much I exercise weight train and eat
correctly. So it has been frustrating to say the least. My new dr who
I trust implicitly said I definitely do not need t3 but my t4 was on
the low end so depending on what I felt comfortable with it might be
worth it to try just a t4. So that is where i am at with this. Any
thoughts and opinions are definitely appreciated and welcome.
Thank you

I have been a lurker for a few days in this group and have needed to find some
answers to my own thyroid problems as I have still been feeling ill being on
Levoxyl. I have been told that my test results were all normal but I have no
idea what normal is suppose to be and would like to know if anyone has any
information to help me out.
I was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism in 2000. How they found it, was I was
broken out in hives all over my hips and upper legs and then it started
spreading to my arms. I didnt know at the time that this rash was hives, had
never seen anything like it in my life. They took a thyroid test and said that
I was showing Hypothyroidism symptoms. I was on predisone for the hives for 4
long months and I say long because of the hell I went through on that medicine.
In any case, I began thyroid treatment of 50mcgs of Levoxyl and went Hyper so
was dropped to 25mgs. A month later they had to increase once again...this time
to 38mcgs of Levoxlyl. Since then I have gone up to 50mcgs and now am currently
on 62mcgs every morning of Levoxyl. I take it every day at the same time of the
morning and wait 2 hours after I take it before I eat anything.
I just had tests done on Monday for the TSH and T3 and T4 levels and these were
the results that my doctor say is normal. I am feeling more energetic but I
have pain in my back and in other places throughout my body and dont know if its
related but feel I need something, this is where my concern comes in.
My test results are as follows and if anybody could help me out with this
numbers I would sure appreciate any help that can be given.
TSH .72
T3 33.3
T4 10.7
Thanks,
Sadie

Lynn, are you already on meds for thyroid? What are you on? Your TSH
indicates HYPERthyroidism technically.
Karen

I have a question and I would love it if some of you would share your knowledge
with me
I just had a thyroid panel taken and here are the results
free t4 1.9 Range 1.1-4.5
Tsh .009 Range .27-4.2
Free t3 34% range 25-35%
would you take that to be too much t3 and possibly I would need a low dose of
T4?
Thank you for any advice thoughts and suggestions
Lynn

First of all, taking an iron supplement can cause some suppression of
thyroid function, especially if your thyroid function is marginal to
begin with. The iron could also be causing your hands to turn bright
red.
If your thyroid is failing and you don't get treatment right away
then your adrenal glands are going to try to make up for it. This, of
course, leads to adrenal exhaustion. Some of your symptoms could be
due to overworked adrenals, such as the cold hands and feet, the
sudden outbreaks of hives, and the weight gain (high cortisol level
will cause this). Has your doctor ordered any adrenal function tests
for you?
Why the B-12 shots? Are you a vegetarian?
Also, if your thyroid is swollen and your doctor won't treat it then
it's time to find a better doctor.
Best wishes,
Celeste

In a message dated 9/24/2002 3:47:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
anonsms@... writes:
Dear Anon,
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, :) I would recommend you go to
the web page for <A HREF="www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com"
Syndrome</A
approach and treatment for people exactly like you: normal blood tests yet
having all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. And you're right--lack of
treatment for the hypothyroidism just because your blood tests show normal
and then putting "bandaids" like hormone treatment, anti-depressants,
diuretics, special diets, etc., isn't going to really fix the underlying
problem! It'slike trying to wave the smoke away instead of putting out the
fire!
WTS and its treatment was developed a little over ten years ago by a doctor
who got tired of seeing a lot of his patients with all the signs of
hypothyroidism who were still really sick. Yet, according to traditional
medical thinking and treatment guidelines, there was "nothing wrong" with
them since their blood tests always came back normal! Dr. Wilson
hypothesized these patients have a problem converting T4 to T3. Since this
happens away from the thyroid gland in cells throughout the body, there is no
quick or easy blood test to confirm you have it, but doctors who treat for
WTS know to judge the results by how their patient is feeling and also by
where they average daily body temperature is. Just like in the old days of
medicine!
The big news about WTS is it's CURABLE! That means if you respond well to
treatment and you get the load off your body long enough to clear out the
build up of unconverted T4 and RT3, your body is likely to return to
converting T4 on its own! So, you won't have to be on medicine for the rest
of your life--something that true hypothyroid patients can't ever consider!
The WTS site has doctor referral so you can likely find a doctor who's
already taken many patients through the treatment protocol. They also have an
information kit you can order to take to your own doctor if you feel he/she
is of the open minded MD variety who is willing to really help YOU.
Good luck!
Linda in LA

Hello everyone,
I am new to the group, and searching for answers. Let me start by
giving a background on myself.
I am a 31 year old female, about 3 years ago I had problems with
fatigue and falling asleep while I was driving. After tests my
doctor told me I was hypothyroid and anemic but he didn't do
anything for the hypothyroid. After B12 shots and treatment for the
anemia, I stopped having problems for a while.
Now within the last year or so, my symptoms seem to have multiplied.
My doctor tested me and my TSH levels and T3/T4 levels were normal.
My anemia is acting up again and I am also having problems with the
following:
Swollen Thyroid
Fatigue (Falling asleep) Severe fatigue without at least 7 hours of
sleep each day (fatigue gets worse beginning early afternoon)
Cold hands/feet
Sudden bouts where my hands turn bright red
loss of libido (my obgyn put me on hormone therapy for this)
weight gain and inability to lose weight despite diet and exercise
Some depression
Sudden outbreaks of Hives and itching that appear primarily at
night, and then disappear without a trace
Light headedness and dizziness
Irritible
Anemia (I am taking B12 shots, folic acid and iron)
and a few others
I feel like the symptoms are being treated but not the disease.
So my test results are normal, but it seems I have a lot of the
symptoms, what do I do to ensure that I get the proper treatment.
Every aspect of my life is being affected by this.
I am looking at taking a herbal treatment called Thyodine, but I'm
really not sure what to do next or what to take to help relieve my
symptoms.
Appreciate any help in making sense of it all.
Confused and Frustrated,
Anon

Rhonda,
Nobody has ALL the symptoms of hypothyroidism (as there are more than
just a handful). Also some symptoms of hypo are the same as for
hyper. Exactly what symptoms are you having?
Also, since your antibodies are higher than normal, has your doctor
considered an autoimmune disorder such as Graves or Hashimoto's?
Best wishes,
Celeste

In a message dated 9/24/2002 8:53:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rjenkins@... writes:
Rhonda,
Well, if all your blood tests read normal but you have all the clinical
symptoms of hypo, I would suspect in your case as in Whitney's case I just
responded to, that you should look closely at the Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome
information and consider it for yourself.
JMO,
Linda in LA

My numbers are:
TSH = 0.59 (was 0.43 one week prior to this reading)
T3 RIA = 65.45
FREE T4 = 0.83
All of these numbers are considered normal for my lab but I have all the
symptoms of HYPO
Anti-thyroid Antibody Group
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies
Anti-TPO Antibodies 142.5 (normal is <2)
Thyroglobulin Antibody
Anti-Thyroglobulin Ab 2.6 (normal is <1)
Analysis?<