Mark's Blog

(This presents some interesting views. It's from the Western
Research Labs site, the makers of Naturethroid and Westhroid. NOTE
the third paragraph where he personally takes his natural thyroid in
the morning and at noon. Also in the 6th paragraph, he finds the
Saliva Texas and physical symptoms to be more suggestive of hypo
than lab work. And in the final paragraph, a mention of stress
causing problems with T4 to T3 conversion:)
NATURAL THYROID IN PRACTICE by Howard Hagglund, M.D.)
I have used natural thyroid because of a very dear mentor and friend
Dr. Eva Wallem. She and most of my colleagues in the alternative
medical field insist on natural thyroid. At first it would appear
that we are just being a bunch of tree hugging sentimentalists. But
the truth is the natural thyroid contains T1, T2, T3 and T4 and they
are not going to be turned away by the immune system of the body.
They are ready to be used and adequately survive any barriers of
digestion and immune rejection.
For those of you who will look, The University of North Carolina did
a large research project comparing natural and synthetic thyroid.
They gave concentration and personality tests to all of those who
participated in this study. Those patients that were on natural
thyroid showed objective improvement in concentration, mood and well-
being. They further reported that they preferred this thyroid to the
ones they had taken before. This article appeared in the New England
Journal of Medicine, February 1999 (2) (for those scholars who need
further proof). I find the natural thyroid gives an even, smooth
ride to the equilibration of the thyroid patient. I find that it is
very forgiving and will often stand 2 or 3 days of forgetting to
take the dose.
For those of you who would like my favorite recipe in dosing thyroid
patients, I strongly suggest a 1-grain tablet in the morning and
another again at noon. This is an extremely helpful way to present
thyroid to the body for two reasons. One, the T3 will not last
longer than 4 hours and there is no reason to be taking all of your
daily T3 in the morning - spread it around. Take the noon dose for
all of the above reasons and it will carry the patient through the 3
o'clock let down of the cortisone level in the blood. This will mean
a reduction in thyroid activity and the patient is well armed to
stand this.
I further want to thank an unknown homeopathic doctor who has given
me a good way to monitor this dose of thyroid. Have your patient
count their pulse every day at rest and if their pulse goes over 90
it's a good idea to remove the morning dose and notify you. Besides
this advantage I find my patients will change their dose during the
year and according to how their thyroid is performing. I strongly
advise that the blood test is frequently in error and of little
value when monitoring thyroid dosing.
If you review the standard handbooks on endocrinology, you can find
over 46 symptoms of low thyroid. I am frequently surprised at the
number of problems that clear up from evaluating and giving proper
dose of thyroid and nutrients. Here are some of my major helpers in
making the diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Ready: thinning hair, cold
hands and feet, missing outer third of eyebrow, insomnia, swollen
ankles that do not pit, obesity but never be misled - thin beautiful
women with great figures are often low thyroid. I seldom rely on
ankle reflexes and depend more on the shape of the torso as another
indicator of low thyroid. Most of my low thyroid patients carry
their weight in the mid section and their thighs.
If you would like some sneaky little diagnostic tips check and
you'll find the little finger is shorter and does not extend out
through the middle of the DIP joint. These people also have a
history of many maladies and will be in trouble with insomnia,
depression and elevated cholesterol. My most significant helper in
diagnosing low thyroid is the physical exam. After that I rely on a
saliva test. In fact I recently participated in a large study
showing very low concordance between blood tests and hypothyroidism.
We have found that there is a very high concordance between the
saliva test and the physical findings of hypothyroidism. Be patient,
our statistician is still working on that paper and it is not
published. Never be fooled by a normal thyroid blood test - it never
was any good and never will be.
On occasion I have used Synthroid but have constantly been
displeased by its ineffectiveness. Check your physiology books and
find that T4 must be converted to T3 in order to be effective. This
is capricious at best and you will note that the patients' poor
nutritional status is the main cause. Synthroid and all other T4s
cannot be converted to active useful thyroid if we do not have
enough selenium, magnesium, vitamin A, cortisol, Vitamin B2 and
Essential Fatty Acids. Be further advised that stress produces large
amounts of Anti-T3. This blocks T4 thyroids from being converted to
the useful T3. Do you know ANYONE who is not under stress 7 days a
week, 365 days a year?
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From another group....
Wendy,
I don't want to sound like a coconut oil salesman but lots of people
get a lot of benefit from adding virgin coconut oil to their daily
diet. I take 3.5 tbs. daily.
VCNO is pro thyroid. Poly and mono unsaturated oils are anti thyroid,
according to http://litalee.com and other sources.
http://coconutoil-online.com
http://wildernessfamilynaturals.com
http://tropicaltraditions.com
Joe

I'm currently taking Levoxyl 125mcg, I was however on 100mcg. Can you
please explain to me the difference between T3 and T4 and on what
information it is I can present my Dr with.
I am worried that I will find myself 100lbs over weight in the next
few months...Im already 183 when normally I would weigh 125-130.
I have explained my concerns to my Dr however, she and my primary
care Dr are more concerned with the fact that there still seems to be
high level of Albenum. I don't know if this is the correct spelling,
anyways, something about remain thyroid cells. I haven't a clue as to
what's going on. I have another Dr appointement in 3 weeks and 2
weeks I have another blood work schedualed.
Kilia~

Something interesting I found thanks to Gracia.. Thank you so much.
I thought I would share with you all.
Kilia~
Coconut oil offers much promise today to sufferers of hypothyroidism
and slow metabolism. It is a known fact that the fatty acid chains in
coconut oil, known as medium chain fatty acids (MCFAs) or medium
chain triglycerides (MCTs), offer wonderful health benefits and are
no where found more abundantly in nature outside coconut oil. For the
hypothyroid sufferer the MCTs rev up the body's sluggish metabolism
and promote weight loss as well.
There are many side affects of a sluggish thyroid gland and the
resulting slower metabolism. First of all, it affects your energy
level greatly, and with a slower metabolism and subsequent reduction
in activity (and energy) there is often unwanted weight gain.
Unfortunately, a person's health is affected as well. Coconut oil can
help with a lot of these problems. Several health problems such as
obesity, heart disease, and osteoporosis are more prevalent in those
people who have slow metabolism. Any health condition is made worse
if the metabolic rate is slower than normal, because the cells can't
heal and repair themselves as quickly. People with hypothyroidism
desperately want to live normal, energetic lives and it is quite
possible adding coconut oil to your diet will be part of your answer.
Increase your Metabolism and Energy Level
Coconut oil or some form of it is used in many hospital formulas to
help the very old, the very young, and the very ill to regain their
strength and vitality. In fact, if you were given formula as a
child, chances are that you given the health promoting benefits of
coconut oil in every bottle. (Note: we do not promote bottle-feeding
infants. Mother's breast milk is always the best nutrition for
infants.) The medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil are much
different than the long chain fatty acids found in the seed oils.
This difference affects how the body utilizes this oil, how it is
digested and metabolized, and how it aids the body.
The medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil are easily absorbed and
put to use nourishing the body. Unlike other fats, they put little
strain on the digestive system and provide a quick source of energy.
On the other hand, long chain fatty acids are usually digested with
digestive enzymes from the liver and take a long time to breakdown.
Less enzymes and less energy are required for coconut oil digestion.
You see, the medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil are digested and
absorbed quickly and with minimal effort. Because of this there is
less strain on the pancreas, liver and the digestive system. This is
important for persons who suffer from metabolic problems.
Once digested long chain fatty acids go on to be stored in adipose
tissue to be used later. However, coconut oil, because it contains
shorter fatty acid chains, is absorbed into the blood stream and
used by the body for energy. Many people describe the "burning" of
coconut oil as being similar to the "burning" of carbohydrates for
fuel. The long chain fatty acids, which are digested by the body,
must be linked up with carrier proteins (they are called
lipoproteins) and carried throughout the body. They can be used by
the cells or organs for energy or stored in adipose tissue or dropped
off on the sides of arteries, etc. The fats which do this are
cholesterol, long chain saturated fats, monounsaturated fat, and
polyunsaturated fat. The medium chain fatty acids, however, are not
packaged into lipoproteins, but travel to the liver where they are
converted into energy. Ordinarily they are not stored to any
significant degree as body fat. Medium chain fatty acids produce
energy. Other dietary fats produce fat.
For energy, if the body uses carbohydrates, insulin, produced by the
pancreas, is required for the glucose molecules to be able to enter
into the cell. Many, many people develop a resistance to insulin as
they get older and it becomes increasingly more difficult for the
body to get these molecules into the cells. Any extra glucose which
can or does not get used by the body for energy is turned into
triglycerides and then carried by carriers all over the body. You
can have high triglycerides in your blood and not eat an ounce of
fat. Even total vegetarians can have high triglycerides from eating
a high carbohydrate diet. Triglycerides and the lipoproteins, in the
same manner as glucose, travel across the cell membrane to be used as
energy, and they too require carriers (enzymes) in order to permeate
both membranes of the cell's mitochondria where their energy is
released. Since the longer chain fatty acids demand special enzymes
to pull them through the double membrane, the energy production
process is much slower and taxing on the enzyme reserves. Medium
chain fatty acids are unique in that they can easily permeate both
membranes of the mitochondria without the need of enzymes and thus
provide the cell with a quick and efficient source of energy. This
is great news if you are feeling fatigued.
Eating foods containing medium chain fatty acids is like putting high
octane fuel into your car. The car will run smoother and get better
gas mileage. Likewise, with medium chain fatty acids, your body will
perform better because it has more energy and greater endurance.
Because MCFAs are funneled directly to the liver and converted into
energy, the body gets a boost of energy. And because MCFAs are easily
absorbed by the energy-producing organelles of the cells, metabolism
increases. This burst of energy has a stimulating effect on the
entire body. Many people, those with relatively good health, those
with significant health problems, and those who are overweight notice
a speeding up of their heart rate, their metabolism and their body
temperature when they add coconut oil to their diet.
It is important to realize that insulin is not involved in any of the
process of getting these medium chain fatty acids into the cells and
so you will not see a "sugar high" (or peak in your sugar level) and
a "sugar low" where you want to go to sleep.
The fact that MCFAs digest immediately to produce energy and
stimulate metabolism has led athletes to use them as a means to
enhance exercise performance. There are several studies showing this
to be true. For example, in one study, investigators tested the
physical endurance of mice who were given MCFAs in their daily diet
against those that weren't. The study extended over a six week
period. The mice were subjected to a swimming endurance test every
other day. They were placed in a pool of water with a constant
current flow like that found in a river. The total swimming time
until exhaustion was measured. While at first there was little
difference between the groups of mice, those fed MCFAs quickly began
to out-perform the others and continued to improve throughout the
testing period.1
To be fair, there are studies which have concluded that MCFA do not
have an effect on energy levels and endurance. These studies have
drawn this conclusion based on one time dosages of MCFA. The studies
which are cited that show a definite benefit from the MCFA are those
where the oil was given on a daily basis for a period of time.
Therefore, it appears that for the best benefit a person should
consume these medium chain fatty acids on a daily basis.
Besides increasing your energy level, there are other very important
benefits that results from boosting your metabolic rate: it helps
protect you from illness and speeds healing. When metabolism is
increased, cells function at a higher rate of efficiency. They heal
injuries quicker, old and diseased cells are replaced faster. Young,
new cells are generated at an increased rate to replace the worn-out
ones. Even the immune system functions better.
Eat Fat, Lose Weight
In the United States 55% of the population is overweight. One in 4
adults is considered obese. Being overweight increases risk for gall
bladder, disease, osteo-arthritis, diabetes, heart disease and early
death.
You can reduce you food intake, reduce your fat intake, and you can
be hungry all the time, feel miserable, depressed and not lose many
(if any) pounds. Most people eventually give up with no lasting or
significant weight loss. Each time you lower your calorie intake your
body lowers it basal metabolism and you require less calories to go
through a day, which will result in more weight gain once you give up
your diet. It is a vicious cycle. Young people require more calories
than older people. Physically active people use more calories than
less active ones. People who are fasting, starving, or even dieting
use less calories than people who are not. And over weight people
use fewer calories than lean or muscular people. Overweight people
who are dieting have even lower metabolism. And then if your thyroid
gland is not working well, you may feel quite desperate.
Interestingly enough, many people find, that by changing the fats
they have in their diet from the unsaturated long chain fatty acids
(found in seed oils) to the medium chain fatty acids (found in
coconut oil), they gradually over the the weeks and months lose
weight effortlessly. It has also been well documented in numerous
dietary studies using both animals and humans that replacing long
chain fatty acids with medium chain fatty acids results in a decrease
in body weight gain and a reduction in fat deposition. 2-8
The reasons seem to be two fold. Since carbohydrates are usually
used for energy, if they are not in excess they will not be turned
into triglycerides and go into fat stores. Proteins are rarely used
for energy. They make up the building blocks of much of our cells
and systems and are usually used in that function. But fats, if in
long chains, will almost always go into fat stores unless the calorie
intake is low and they are needed for energy. However, the medium
chain fatty acids will not do that. They will help in the digestion
of the fat soluble vitamin, and they will fight bacteria and viruses
(lauric acid is known for dissolving the lipid envelope that protects
many pathogenic viruses and bacteria) and in the end rather than
adding to fat stores these fatty acid chains will be used up for
energy by the body. And since coconut oil will speed up metabolism,
your body will actually be burning more calories in a day and you
will have more energy. You may even become more active. This will
only help to accelerate weight loss and renew your health. It is
very interesting to see studies that show the unsaturated fats as
having an effect on the body of causing hypothyroidism and a lower
metabolic rate and the coconut oil speeding up metabolism and
increasing thyroid activity.
Conclusion
The expeller-pressed seed oils (also often called "vegetable oils"),
such as soybean oil, have only been added to western diets recently,
mainly since World War II. Not only are these oils dominant in long
chain fatty acids, but the way in which they are prepared and
preserved lend to toxic trans fatty acids that modern research has
shown is responsible for many health problems. These are fatty acids
that have been altered from their original form by the refining
process. Coconut oil on the other hand, is an oil that has been a
part of Asian diets for thousands of years, and has natural
antioxidants that give it the longest shelf life of any plant oil.
Traditional Asian diets have been typically free from most modern
western diseases, such as obesity and heart disease. Here at Tropical
Traditions we offer an unrefined Virgin Coconut Oil that contains no
chemicals whatsoever, and retains the original odor and flavor of
coconuts.
Purchase Virgin Coconut Oil
Adapted from Bruce Fife's book The Healing Miracles of Coconut Oil.
©2001 Reprinted by permission of the author and publisher
References
1. Fushiki, T and Matsumoto, K 1995, Swimming endurance capacity of
mice is increased by consumption of medium-chain triglycerides.
Journal of Nutrition 125:531
2. Baba, N 1982. Enhanced thermogenesis and diminished deposition
of fat in response to overfeeding with diet containing medium-chain
triglyceride. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 35:379
3 Bach, A.C. et al. 1989 Clinical and experimental effects of medium
chain triglycerides based fat emulsions-a review.
4. Hill, J.O., et al. 1989 Thermogenesis in humans during
overfeeding with medium0chain triglycerides. Metabolism 38:641
5. Hasihim, S.A. and Tantibhedyangkul, P. 1987 Medium chain
triglycerides in early life: Effects on frowth of adipose tissue.
Lipids 22:429
6. Geliebter, A 1980. Overfeeding with a diet of medium-chain
triglycerides impedes accumulation of body fat Clinical Nutrition
28:595
7. Bray, G.A., et al. 1980. Weight gain of rats fed medium chain
fatty triglycerides is less than rats fed long chain fatty acids.
Int. J. Obes. 4:27-32
8. Geliebter, A 1983. Overfeeding with medium-chain triglycerides
diet results in diminished deposition of fat. Am. J. Clin. Nutr.
37:1.4
Statements made here have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product
is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

I heard of this it's actually called Cal-Factor by coral reef
products. I am awaiting it's arrival I placed my order several weeks
ago for 49.99. I will let you know my results upon my recieving this
so highly spoke about product.
I am currently taking 6000mg of Oyst-Cal, and Dical-D, I was taking
Calcitrol 400mg. On my own I have added Cal-100 w/D this is a product
that is dissolved in tea, juice, food etc, provoding 1000mg of
Calcium, I also chew these delicious Viactiv Milk chocolate & Caramel
chews by Mcneil products. These taste literally like caramel chews
however, also providing our body with 1000mg calcium, 200 IU vitaminn
D, and 80mcg of K. I am aware of hyper-calcimia so I rotate all these
products on my own paying extra attention & care to my body and it's
sensations.
I have had to take it upon myself to self treat my body knowing the
two times I have experienced Tutany was due to my Drs negligience.
This is what has led me to give Coral Reefs product a try to ensure
complete absorption. Hopefully preventing Gaul stones in the
future....

I just wanted to say hang in there !! And also hope you know not to
take the calcium too close to your medication . Blessings Andrea

Also there is a form of calcium called Coral calcium which is supposed to be
superior in assimability (is that a word?). You know what I mean though.
Helps correct acidity in your body, too. I'm reading the PH Miracle and its
amazing the affect over acidity has on our health. Worth checking out.
Jeanie

Hi, have you had FREE T3 and FREE T4 tests done? When people don't feel
well on Armour, that means to me that they need other hormones, like
cortisol, DHEA, estrogen, progesterone etc. I think it is better to find
what else is needed rather than back off on T3. How old are you? I am
not sure which is the best kind of adrenal test. I did a "spit test" for
adrenals when I was feeling my worst and it seemed to be accurate. Do a
search for Great Smokies Lab on Google. I think I have needed thyroid all
my life but got it for the first time at age 52, and the first year was pure
hell, but not as bad as the preceding 52. If you need cortisol you will
absolutely have to have it to heal. Try cod liver oil, I hear good things
about coconut oil too. Fats are important for hormone production. Also B
vitamins help a lot. I had severe anxiety too. Now I never have it,
except when I eat too much wheat. You might test for allergies!
Gracia

Here's my story, I was diagnosed with Thyroid Cancer in March 2002,
operated and had a total thyroidectomy in May, and given the
Radiation therapy in July. I have gained a total of 60 lbs in these
months. A few days ago I recieved my blood work results and I am
still hypothyroid. I am so tired and moreso depressed because of the
added weight. It seems that my Drs arent helping me as much as I
would like them to be. I also have hypoparathyroidism and I have also
experienced tutany. I am currently taking 6000 mil gms of Calcium,, I
was taking 100mc of Levoxyl and now I am taking 125mc as of 4 days
ago. How long till this weight comes off and/or does anyone else here
have any suggestions...
Kilia~

Renee,
I have tested anemic several times throughout my life. Since I have
been unable to take iron supplements, though, I have always resolved
the anemia just by eating more iron-rich foods. I do think it's best
to get a blood test, though, to see if you're anemic. I think too
much iron is much more harmful than not enough.
Best wishes,
Celeste

Andrea,
DHEA is a steroid and it should be used with caution (if at all). Too
much DHEA can cause estrogen dominance in women. It can also cause
masculinization. I have had only bad experiences with DHEA. Another
thing to try is pregnenolone since that's what your body uses to make
DHEA (and many other hormones including progesterone) naturally.
Best wishes,
Celeste

Celeste,
I know it can interfere with the absorption- that was the very 1st
rule I learned about taking thyroid meds and vitamins! LOL!
Unfortunately, the hard way.
I guess the REAL question I'm asking is this:
Does a person who works out regularly( every day ) need to supplement
iron?
I never thought there was a correlation between iron and working out.
Now, when you add the hypothyroidism in there, things get interesting
BECAUSE some people get anemia along with the hypothyroidism.
I think I'll just get a blood test and find out if I really do need
to supplement. Until then, I'll continue to not supplement my iron,
stay on The Zone diet, and try to keep up my working out schedule.
Renee

DHEA helped me a lot. I took 10 mgs for 2 months and now take 5 mgs. Be
sure to look for pharmaceutical grade, I like Enzymatic Therapy from HFS.
Gracia

Well Ive been hearing alot about this supplement and thought about
trying it ... maybe 10mgs ..but I guess Im worried about adverse
affects . Any input , from a woman who has tryed it would be nice .
Andrea

Kristie,
First of all, I myself have actually suggested that thyroid docs
have thyroid probs themselves. Thanks for the massage advice,
I will sure try it! Also, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's last
November. I, too, seem to always have a cold, sinus probs, ear
probs, etc., and was generally not sick much before my thyroid
problems started. I have been in the dr's office perhaps more
times for these things than thyroid problems in the last year. I eat
pretty healthy, take care of myself, get enough sleep (surprising,
considering I'm a college student). I take a mulit-vitamin, intake
lots of Vitamin C, and still I get sick. Generally, I always feel
sluggish and on the verge of a cold or flu. My mom (and I'm pretty
sure my doc too) think I just don't take care of myself. I haven't
read anything about being sicker because of Hashimoto's but
this sure does make me wonder.
Eden

Eden,
What you're describing sounds similar to what I've experienced off
and on with my ears. My doctor prescribed a good cortisone cream and
I just apply a little once a day inside each ear with a Q-tip. It
clears up all the soreness, redness, etc. in a couple of days.
Best wishes,
Celeste

in response to eden's post about ear problems -
i had a similar thing a few years ago (shortly after my hashimoto's
syndrome diagnosis). it started with a persistent ear infection and
then my ears stayed "clogged" long after the doctor said nothing was
wrong. i tried garlic ear drops and didn't notice any improvement.
the only relief i got was from self-massage - my ears, below my ears,
and my neck. i looked on the internet for any sort of directions and
couldn't find much (the best said "Gently massaging th neck and under
or behind the ears in a downward direction can be soothing and might
help passages drain mucous"). it went away eventually. good luck!
a question for everyone - i tend to get sick more often than i used
to. and then whatever it is (ear issues, flu, sore throat, etc) will
keep showing up for awhile, and i have this low-level sick feeling
fairly regularly - as if i'm about to get a sore throat or whatever.
then it will mysteriously go away until the next thing. does this
happen with anyone else?
more doctor grumbles - i went to my primary care physician to see if
she had any ideas about these nagging symptoms (meanwhile - my
thyroid meds have been increased and decreased over the 15 months to
find the right dose by my endo-). and her response was - "sounds
like depression. in a circumstance like this, you rarely find
anything else wrong. i'd prescribe anti-depressants." my mouth
dropped open - i couldn't believe she said that! yes, i'm stressed
from being sick all the time and from the periodic fatigue - and the
stress is probably making matters worse. but come on! sometimes, i
feel like the only way this doctor would listen and believe what i'm
saying is if she was having the symptoms herself (which i think
someone else on this list mentioned before). =<
thanks for listening! - kristie

This will be a little off topic for a thyroid group, but I need a
little venting time, and some other advice. First of all, I hate drs.
They don't listen to you when you tell them how you feel. I'm
currently having ear problems. Both my ears are sore and my left one
is stopped up. Went to the dr: right ear is slightly red, left ear
has now all cleared up after a TON of Sudafed (I went last week and
that's what they told me to do). So that's good, all the fluid behind
my ear drum has dried up, but it still hurts and is still stopped up.
They put me on an anti-histimine/decongestant (which, by the way,
I've already tried) But still, they won't really listen to me when I
say they're still bothering me...so everything looks ok, but it may
not be. This is just like the thyroid stuff: so what that the numbers
are right, you still feel like poo. Anyways, so, does anyone have any
advice about my ears? Any strange techniques found to clear them up?
Eden

Hi everyone,
Im new to the group (lurking for a few weeks) and thought Id introduce
myself. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism around January of 1999 and
have been taking Armour thyroid RX ever since. I did try the Synthroid
and Levothroid but they both gave me some pretty jittery, icky feelings
that I didnt get with the Armour. It was neat the way my doctor
diagnosed me. He first gave me instructions to do the temperature test
for a few days and then, at an office exam, checked the reflex of a
muscle in my arm to see how slowly it reacted to the tap. He said this
showed him how low my thyroid level was even if my blood tests didnt
show it. I had been losing hair for several years, was tired constantly
and generally grumpy. I am 44 years old now and feeling better than I
have since I was 30! I am fairly happy with my new doctor (the old one
moved too far away for me to visit any longer) but he relies more on
blood tests which is probably a more accurate way of medicating someone,
lol.
The weirdest thing Ive experienced was beginning to have panic attacks
in l987 after the birth of my second child. I would lie down to take a
nap when she did and I would startle awake, heart beating a hundred
miles a minute after being asleep about 5-10 minutes. This had been
going on all these years but has gotten much better after I started
taking my thyroid medication. I naturally assume this phenomenon (a very
unpleasant one) was caused by this illness. Has anyone else had this
experience with hypothyroidism?
I am enjoying this group and all the interesting comments. It certainly
helps to stay abreast of all the scientific and medical findings out
there!
Juli <
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Hi Juli, I was a walking panic attack after a partial thyroidectomy and no
meds for 30 years because of tsh test. Needless to say, I think your new
doc and his diagnostics are much better than the standard tests, which many
question the value of.
Gracia
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the group (lurking for a few weeks) and thought I'd introduce
myself. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism around January of 1999 and
have been taking Armour thyroid RX ever since. I did try the Synthroid
and Levothroid but they both gave me some pretty jittery, icky feelings
that I didn't get with the Armour. It was neat the way my doctor
diagnosed me. He first gave me instructions to do the temperature test
for a few days and then, at an office exam, checked the reflex of a
muscle in my arm to see how slowly it reacted to the tap. He said this
showed him how low my thyroid level was even if my blood tests didn't
show it. I had been losing hair for several years, was tired constantly
and generally grumpy. I am 44 years old now and feeling better than I
have since I was 30! I am fairly happy with my new doctor (the old one
moved too far away for me to visit any longer) but he relies more on
blood tests which is probably a more accurate way of medicating someone,
lol.
The weirdest thing I've experienced was beginning to have panic attacks
in l987 after the birth of my second child. I would lie down to take a
nap when she did and I would startle awake, heart beating a hundred
miles a minute after being asleep about 5-10 minutes. This had been
going on all these years but has gotten much better after I started
taking my thyroid medication. I naturally assume this phenomenon (a very
unpleasant one) was caused by this illness. Has anyone else had this
experience with hypothyroidism?
I am enjoying this group and all the interesting comments. It certainly
helps to stay abreast of all the scientific and medical findings out
there!
Juli <
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Thanks for your responses to my post. I've found in the past few
months that I am the only person who REALLY cares how I feel and it
is up to me to do the research and find out what approach to take. My
new GYN did tell me on my first visit that he is open to taking
a "natural" approach to HRT, so I'm sure he won't be totally
surprised when I call and tell him I've stopped taking the hormones I
was on and I want to start over. I feel like I've totally fallen
apart since turning fifty . . . and I'M NOT READY for that! Anyway,
thanks again and I'll keep researching.

In a message dated 10/31/2002 5:35:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jeanie_c@... writes:
Dear Jeanie,
This is an important question! In my own experience, when I use the estrogen
creams or drops, my thyroid begins hurting. Yes, it does help me sleep,
especially since I'm in menopause, but I still seem to already be over
estrogen and adding more isn't really helping much.
FYI, according to John Lee, estrogen and thyroid hormone are antagonists in
the body. That's not a bad thing; the body has lots of systems like that.
But I do think every woman who goes on HRT or birth control pills should know
if they are prone to a low thyroid situation and they should be monitored for
signs or symptoms of hypothyroidism. (This applies to the plant estrogens in
soy products, too, IMO.) What you're describing, symptom-wise, sounds
suspiciously like low thyroid function. The fact that you have normal TSH is
not a conclusive "proof" your thyroid health is fine! Lots of folks here on
this list have "normal" TSH tests yet are hypothyroid!
Here are some links from Thyroid.about.com that talk about your question:
<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/drugs/bl-estrogen.htm?terms=estrogen+and+\
thyroid"
<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/drugs/bl-estrogen.htm?terms=estrogen+and+\
thyroid"
<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa042602a.htm?terms=estrogen+and+t\
hyroid"
I hope this helps,
Linda in LA

Sometime ago I posted a question about having trouble being
diagnosed. My doctor was no help. I have an appointment in early
december to meet with a doctor who is herself hypothyroid. Hopefully
that will be productive visit.
In the interim I decided that I had to do something as I was to the
point of not being able to function.
I started monitoring my temperature, and logging my meals and
symptoms. What I found was that my body temperature averaged 96.8.
I started taking Thyodine. Well I have been taking it for about a
month now, and I have seen considerable improvement. My body
temperature fluctuates now (my symptoms also fluctuate with my
temperature), but most of the time it now hovers around 98.3.
I've also started dropping some weight, the depression is going away,
and no more falling asleep on the road. My libido has even started to
return.
I've got a long way to go, but I now feel like I'm on my way to at
least managing the illness.
It's good to know there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks to those that responded to my original post.
Good luck to all in your quests for wellness.
Anon

(http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/NutritionSupplements/DMG.
html) - which is great for most folks in boosting their immune
system. but for a person with hashimoto's (like me), does that mean
that taking dmg would cause you to destroy your thyroid at a faster
rate than you already are? i hope this makes sense... does anyone
have any ideas?
I don't know and haven't thought about the DMG-antibody relation.
But - we have to have anitbodies, or we wouldn't be able to fight
infections etc. The problem with Hashi's is the thyroid antibodies
are screwed up and attacking the thyroid. I wouldn't think that DMG
would increase this attacking mode - however, I am not a science
major!.
I haven't seen anything written about DMG side effects - and I would
think that if DMG was dangerous for Hashi's - it would state this
somewhere. But it's good to question it!.
Mary
(with Hashi's)

I was just reading another thing and thought I would pass it on...
Apparently low iron can cause fatique when exercising. However, you
don't have to have 'low-iron anemia' (which I have, therefore I get
more fatiqued when exercising), just low iron in your "reserves". The
recommendation was to get a ferritin blood test - which checks this
iron reserve. The solution was if your reserves are low, to take iron.
Mary

In the current issue of Shape Magazine (may be last issue's by now, not
sure), they have a bunch of 60 second exercises. They also offer 10, 20, and
30 minute combinations for specific types of workouts. This may be good if
you really don't have alot of energy, just take a couple minutes, literally,
to do a couple of exercises (the cardio ones may feel like too much... if so
there are stretch types also). =)
Christy

I haven't really been to check it, but have been thinking about it... Are
there exercise/workout tapes (say at WalMart, etc) on DVD? I know they are
common (and many times pretty cheap) on VHS, but I only have a DVD player
anymore.....

In a message dated 11/1/2002 7:34:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tamsterlynne@... writes:
Hi,
I'm getting treatment for <A HREF="www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com"
Been on it a little over a year and it
has done me tons of good! My temps, like yours were averaging in the low 97s
when I met my holistic doc last year and he put me on the treatment. Now,
I'm averaging around 98.3-98.4. I have a few remaining hypo symptoms but
they are significantly less than last year such that I feel like a new woman!
Plus, I'm not finished with the treatment protocol yet, so I expect those
symptoms will vanish eventually, too, when my temperature gets stabilized.
You're right about the Cytomel; it's not the optimum treatment for Wilson's
Thyroid Syndrome. Though there are some folks on this list who are on it and
are doing well! At least their docs and yours are willing to try T3 when the
patient has low temps and normal TSH rather than just loading down their
bodies with more and more T4 which they may not need!
The kind of T3 Dr. Wilson prescribes (and I am on) is compounded with a
timed-release matrix so the T3 goes into your blood stream slowly and
steadily over 12 hours. It has really been the best medicine for me,
especially since my blood tests have always shown I make all the T4 I
need--just that my body lost the ability to convert it was the problem.
IMO, the best advice I can offer you if you want to know more, is to order
the Doctor's Manual for Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome and read it through and
through until you understand the treatment plan as well as your doctor. The
book is not particularly technical. I think anyone with a high school
education can follow Dr. Wilson's presentation since he uses a lot of
analogies, diagrams, and simple explanations. The understanding I gained
from that book has been of great help to me in dealing the my unique T3
dosing needs and it has helped answer questions I've had when I couldn't
reach my doctor right away. It could help you talk to your doc and maybe you
could ask him/her for the timed-release T3!
If you have questions about WTS, feel free to ask. I feel so grateful to my
doc for telling me about it and putting me on the treatment that I'll gladly
share what I've learned. I finally have my life, and my energy, and my mind
back!
All the best,
Linda in LA

Many find they lose weight easily on natural thyroid meds that contain T3.
This eliminates the need for diet pills which is good for you and your body,
but not so good for drug companies. You have to decide where your
allegience lies. Also as a health care consumer you should be insisting on
quality health care, not quantity.
Gracia

I got a message from my dr. today about my latest thyroid results. He
said my levels were perfect, but didn't say what they were. The
office is now closed but I intend on calling on Monday and getting my
exact numbers. My current dr. is my uncle, so I really don't want to
get into it with him, but I think he'll believe me if I tell him that
something is wrong, even if the numbers don't prove it. I don't want
to be mean, but he needs to understand that I feel like poo altho "my
levels are pefect." As it's been said so many times on here, drs.
just need to understand that numbers aren't always that important.
Perhaps the only drs. that should be able to treat thyroid problems
are those w/ thyroid problems themselves.

I'm glad so many people seem to agree! I'm a trainer also. I
didn't give her specific advice as you did, though, just a wierd
habit I have. I never give specific exercise advice when I don't
know what level the person I'm advising is starting at. I never
thought about that until I read your post...maybe I'm wierd...
Cindy

Cindy,
I agree with your recommendation 100%. Start slow and increase
gradually. The biggest mistake made by people when beginning an
exercise program is to do too much too soon. For example, don't
exercise every day when first starting out. Try for two days a week.
If that goes well for a couple of weeks then add a third day. Another
example, instead of starting out by exercising for an hour try for 10
to 20 minutes. If that goes well for a couple weeks then add another
10 minutes or so. Doing a little at a time will allow you to tolerate
exercise better and allow your body to adjust to it successfully.
I say this both from personal experience and from my education and
experience as a personal fitness trainer.
Best wishes,
Celeste

Hi Kristie!
I'm glad you saw that! I understand your concern about taxing
yourself and you do have a point...you don't want to overdo it right
off the bat, that fatigues everyone not just hypothyoid people. But
IMHO, since exercise naturally raises everyone's metabolisms, it's
especially helpful to those of us with metabolism slowed by thyroid
disease.
The trick is to find something you halfway like, if you were once
active you probably have a jump on this compared to someone who was
never very active. It's hard, I know, to make yourself do something
when every fiber wants a nap!! When you're really fatigued, stick to
a shorter bout of gentle exercise. Sometimes just a simple 15 minute
brisk walk perks me up and gets me through the afternoon if I'm
feeling tired.
It might take a while, several weeks or even over a month, before
you feel a change. Keep with it though, even if you can't do much at
first. I promise, it WILL get easier as you go!!
Please let me know how it goes. I know how much my exercise
routine has helped me. I've read in books and articles people say the
same, but first-hand feedback would be great :)
Best,
Cindy

hi there - someone had recommended dmg for support when exercising.
thanks for the suggestion! but i have a question (who knows if
anyone might have any info on this, but i thought it was worth
asking) - i read that dmg can "increase antibody production"
(http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/NutritionSupplements/DMG.
html) - which is great for most folks in boosting their immune
system. but for a person with hashimoto's (like me), does that mean
that taking dmg would cause you to destroy your thyroid at a faster
rate than you already are? i hope this makes sense... does anyone
have any ideas?
still taking it once in awhile may still be fine for some people...
who knows? thanks for any help people can give! -kristie

-Just two words for me...Richard Simmons!!!!

I am new here, and have been doing some research in the last couple
of weeks on Wilson's Thyroid Syndrom. I noticed that there were
posts regarding it back in 2000, but I hadn't noticed anything
recently. I've been monitoring my temperature as it says to do, and
during the height of the day I'm at 97.3-97.6 a full degree+
below "normal". Well, I went to my endo yesterday, and she
kinda/sorta listened, and handed me a script for Cytomel. But from
what I understand, that's not the optimal form of T3 that I probably
should be getting...... anyone got experience with this and could
offer some advice???

hi folks! i have a question about the post about exercise from cindy
for her or anyone else who might have some answers/opinions-
cindy, you wrote that exercise has helped you with your fatigue - and
even when you feel tired that you still exercise and you're able to
move through it. this has been a constant question for me lately.
i've always considered myself an active person - well, until
hypothyroidism over the past two years. when i get tired, i've
always thought that i "have to take care of myself" (i wish i knew
how to do that and what works!) by laying low and doing little until
i feel better again. i've been afraid that being active when i'm
tired is just going to run me into the ground. i don't want to tax
what little reserves i have. but, i've also wondered if some
activity would maybe get me going or help.
what have other folks found with this? is it more helpful to lay low
or try to stay active even when you have fatigue?
thanks everyone for sharing information and your experiences! it's
so nice to know that i'm not alone with this, that none of us are
alone with this - and it's not just me against my doctor. we're all
moving towards greater health and well-being, right? much love,
kristie

I'm new to the group and would like to know if anyone has any first
hand experiences they could share with the relationship between
estrogen and hypothyroidism. I've been on HRT for 2-1/2 years and
have complained for the past 11 months of occasional dizziness,
fatigue, palpitations, parathesia, and last, but certainly not least,
peristent tongue swelling. I've been to several doctors and have had
test after test, so far to no avail. I'm told my TSH is normal, but
now I've read that women on HRT sometimes develop hypothyroid
symptoms even though their TSH & total hormones appear normal on
blood tests. (I do know my estradiol was way too high when tested
last month. My GYN lowered my estrogen dosage and I am to have it
tested again in two weeks.) Anyway . . . does anyone have any first
hand experience to share? I want to be totally armed at my next
doctor visit. Thanks!

Hi everyone,
Any comments about a product called Juice Plus. A lady I work with claims to
have hypothyroidism and says this product has really made a difference in her
energy and over all feeling of well-being. Thanks.

Hi guys. I went to the dr again on Monday. He upped my Synthroid to 88mcg.
I made an issue of the weight gain (25 pounds.. I was at my highest, 115,
when they weighed me in) and asked for something. He gave me samples of
Xenical 120mg and told me to take one a day with my heaviest meal. I went to
the Xenicare website and they assign you to a personal dietician by email.
Today is my fourth day on the new dosage of Synthroid, my fourth day on
Xenical, and my first day of my food diary. I am scheduled to see the doc
again in a month. (It was 6 weeks since my last visit prior to Monday.)
We'll see from here....
By the way, since I've been on Synthroid (going on two onths), I haven't had
any tense or jittery side effects.
Christy

Thanks for the info Linda. I had NO idea that one would need to take
that much!
Do you know if CALc/MAG/Zinc comibinations have anything to do with
the pain? I'm taking a combination pill of Calc= 300, Mag= 25 and
Zinc = 14 at 3 per day!!! Just wondered if one could take TOO much
Calcium??
Renee

Am I grasping at straws,
Hi Tony,
First of all NO you are not grasping at straws to try to improve
the way you feel!!! We've all been there in varying degrees and know
exactly where you're coming from.
You said you were on Euthroid, which I'm not familiar with, but
switched to Levoxyl. I don't know about herbals, I've never tried
them. If I were you I would also check into other thyroid hormone
replacement, Cytomel (T3) or Armour (natural, from pigs). Or a
combination. Keep looking for a doctor who will LISTEN, it's worth a
million degrees or titles. And don't give up. You CAN feel better.
Keep trying, good luck and keep writing,
Cindy

I have had some problems with being tense and jittery but I
never really associated it with Synthroid. I've been on Synthroid
since April, and I don't remember if I had symptoms like this
before that. I don't know what's going on with my body anymore. I
don't even remember what it feels like to feel normal.
Sometimes I think I'm just crazy and it's all in my head, like I'm a
hypocondriac or something.
Eden

Synthroid is icky---too high T4, too low T3. Armour is much better.
Gracia

Hello, been reading here for about a month now, and I've learned so
much! I am so thankful there is a place like this to come to. I had
my M.D. check my TSH levels 6 years ago, and I was told it was
high...but I was still within the "normal" range. UGGHH!!! Over the
past 6 years I have dealt with weight problems ( and I'm not
extremely overweight, I just can't lose no matter what I do! ), mood
swings, depression, and feeling cold ALL THE TIME! Even in the
summer. The past 3 years I have been known to have beach towels
wrapped around me while outside.....it has become a running joke with
family and friends. Over the past year, I have come accross many
articles about people having thyroid problems. I started thinking
maybe this was a sign from above.....to really look into this, learn
about everything I could! I have talked to at least 6 other women
who have the same problems! Even their Dr.s won't treat them cause
their in the "normal" range. I did a search on the internet, and
found this wonderful message board! I can't tell you how helpful
this board has been to me ( and my family :) )!! About 2 months ago,
I had my Dr. check my TSH levels again. While the girl was taking my
blood, I asked her to please also check my T4 levels. Dr.s office
called me back, and said I was OK....I was in the "normal"
range...nope it's not your thyroid. I went to the office, and asked
for a copy of my results. My T4's were way below normal.....and my
TSH was a 1.98. Dr. wasn't even going to tell my about my T4
levels. I called him, and demanded more testing. I asked for my
T3's to be tested, free T4's....and anything else that goes along
with the Thyroid!! He just thinks I'm depressed. He put me on
Sarafem for the months of July--August--Sept., and it made my
symptoms of tiredness even worse. It didn't help with my moodiness,
or depression! He told me to go off of it, and we'd try something
else. But I demanded more Thyroid bloodwork, before trying another
antidepressant! My levels came back on the VERY low end of
the "normal" range....and my TSH levels were now 4.25!!!!!!! BIG jump
from 1.98 a week earlier!!! But my Dr. still insisted that my
thyroid is NOT the problem, and maybe Zoloft is the answer. He
didn't have any samples of Zoloft to give me.....so he gave me Paxil
instead. *sigh* I have NOT taken it.....and went to a woman's
health Dr. She looked at my test results, and told me she gives
people Synthroid with levels like that. She agreed that alot of
people feel better below a TSH of 2. If I had not found this message
board.....and all the links to Mary Solomon.....I would NEVER have
been empowered with all this knowledge!! I know in my gut, that I'm
not "just depressed". I know in my heart of hearts, my Thyroid needs
help. I've had these symptoms for at least 7 years, and I wish I
would have found this place then!! I would have been spared the
suffering I've been through over just the past 2 years!!!! Thanks
for such a wonderful, knowledgeable board!!
MaLisa

Has anybody here had a problem with getting really jittery and tense from taking
Synthroid?
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Rhonda
Sugar Bearz ~ Fine Quality Children's Clothing

Hi,
My name is Tony and I am from LOUISANA. I am writing because I am
trying to find out if this is as good as it gets. I have been
fighting a severe hypothyroid condition for almost 20 years now
(diagnosed). I guess looking back now I can see where it must have
begun sometime while I was in high school. My friends began calling
me Speedy, like calling a thin man Fatso. I began to talk and walk
and do everything else slowly. I was diagnosed when I was about 21
years old because I went to the doctor when my hip popped and caused
me to fall. He said that I had the hips of a seventy year old man.
I had arthritis, losing hair, yellow skin, cold all the time, etc.
etc. The only time prior to being diagnosed, after things began
going downhill, that I can look back on and say that I felt great,
was when I was in a bad car accident. I was in the hospital for 10
days and had a blood transfusion. All I can think is that the blood
that I was given had thyroid hormone in it, because for about 2
months after the accident I felt great and paople were telling me how
great I looked. That's something I don't hear very often. However
after I was diagnosed i was put on EUTHROID which was eventually
taken off of the market. I did not find out until this week that
when I was given levoxyl, synthroid and now levothroid by subsequent
doctors, that it was not the same as EUTHROID. Since switching from
euthroid to the other meds I have had a weight problem, this is
exactly what the doctors said would not happen. I fell decent
sometimes but most of the time either worn out or just the opposite,
anxious and energetic. I have been to doctor after doctor who will
not listen to the way I feel, or they listen but do nothing. After
doing a little internet reading this week, I realize that the
symptoms I'm having are common to almost everyone with a thyroid
condition that is being treated. I am hoping to find help, I have
more doctor's appointments scheduled. I am going to ask to see an
endocrinologist. I am also trying to find anyone who has experience
with THYODINE or THYRODINE (herbals). Am I grasping at straws,
because I feel that I am. If this is as good as it gets, please tell
me because I do not want to waste my time trying to feel better if
this is the best I'm going to feel.

Andrea,
A thyroid scan is a non-invasive procedure. You are injected with a
radioactive isotope that makes your thyroid gland "glow in the dark"
long enough to get a picture of it (similar to an X-ray). The isotope
does not have any harmful effects and is excreted from the body
pretty quickly (within a few hours). I've had a thyroid scan.
Best wishes,
Celeste

*scan*

In a message dated 10/29/2002 8:57:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
aisadora@... writes:
Dear Andrea,
Have you seen this page from Mary Shomon's site? It's about the <A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa091702a.htm"
Mistakes</A
it to you before your appointment today. It lists tests to request but more
important IMO, asking the doctor to treat YOU not your blood test numbers.
Good luck! I hope this person turns out to be a good doc!
Linda in LA

Just wondered what tests should I ask for today when I see this new
Dr. The only tests I've had so far are TSH and Free t4 . I was
wondering if an antibody test might be good? and maybe my adreanals?
Also I am going to see him about a lump in my throat and my primary Dr
said that they would do a needle byopsy or a scan . But I guess I
would prefer the least envasive , and Im not sure what type of *scan*
Well , thats all for now , Andrea

Dear Group,
I also belong to the gettingwell group.
Here is a list of health links using natural means from that site.
If any of these links do not work, you can go to the links page here:

In a message dated 10/26/2002 2:53:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ahoy7@... writes:
Dear Hope,
This sounds like TMJ to me. Glucosamine might help (1500 mg per day) and
also massage therapy to relax and release the masseter and temporalis muscles
that act on the jaw. You can also help yourself by stretching your mouth
open while massaging repeatedly down your jaw line and down your temple.
Also, yawning repeatedly for about 20 minutes until tears run out your eyes
helps relieve a lot of facial tension that causes TMJ.
Linda in LA

It sounds to me like TMJ , but ofcourse I m not a Dr. I do have jaw
pain and have off and on for years . My Dr has explained to me that
lack of thyroid hormone causes tissues to swell and can cause joint
pain and pinched nerves . I also have carpal tunnel , although not
too bad tonight , as I type away!! So you see your question wasn't
off topic at all !!! Andrea

I do suffer from both but the glucosamine does me no good whatsoever. :-( Only
eating low carb helps mine.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Rhonda
Sugar Bearz ~ Fine Quality Children's Clothing

Anyone else here suffer with soar stiff muscles and has Hashimoto's?
If so, is it safe to take glucosomine chondroitin(sp?). I would like
to get rid of some of my joint pain that I have and wondered if this
would be good.
Renee P.

Hello Everyone.... I have a off topic question to ask those who might know
something about this. The past few weeks i have a lot of pressure in my jaw
joint and sometimes whenever i am talking or even open my mouth it will
crack and pop loudly. Someone told me it could have been a injury in the
past now giving me problems and another person told me it could be a ear
infection. I am really unsure if i should mention this to my doctor since
there is times i have no pain, poping or pressure there. Any advice or info?
Can anyone tell me what could be causing this or make it go away? LOL
Thanks! Hope

Debbie,
Where are you in Florida? If you are in or near Jacksonville, I can
reccomend my pcp. I don't know what is considered "good," but after reading
some descriptions of doc visits, I've grown to appreciate my doc even more.
After about a year of slowly gaining weight and losing energy and
interest/motivation (the weight gain was more noticable than the other), I
went to my doc with a concern about my metabolism. We did a full run of
blood tests and on my next appointment we went over my results. Everything
looked great, "except..." then he was telling me how "this" was too low and
how "that" wasn't good, but that it wasn't doing as much as it could because
of the other being too low, etc. (This is all brand new to me and I don't
know all the terms yet, lol). Then he was telling me all about my thyroid.
He gave me 25 mcg of levoxyl. A few months later I took another set of blood
tests and followed up with a visit a few days later. (It was my fault for
delaying as long as I did in going back, not his.) There was some
improvement shown on the blood test, but not in how I felt. He upped my
dosage and changed brands. I am now on synthroid 75 mcg. I have an
appointment Monday afternoon. He had me make an appointment while I was at
the last visit - before leaving - for about 6 weeks later. Granted mine
showed up on blood tests and it is not as extreme as some, but I went in with
absolutely NO knowledge about it whatsoever and right of the bat he
recognized it and began treating it. I don't see any need for me to go to an
endo as some of y'all had talked about, but then again I really don't know
much about this.... I'm not feeling any real improvement, but I've only been
on this dose 6 weeks, so I don't think I can really count the time on the
previous meds if it wasn't the right dose. THIS might not even be the right
dose. We'll see. =)
Debbie... lemme know if you're close and I'll give you his name and info.
Christy

Christy...thanks for the offer, it is greatly appreciated but I'm down
in St. Pete. I used to have a great GP when I lived in Bradenton but
he retired a couple of years ago and I was forced to find another dr.
I'd been going to him for over 16 yrs. and he was the one that first
felt I had something more then fibromyalgia and sent me to a rheumo
figuring I had an autoimmune disease going on but thought it to be
rheumatoid arthritis. From there the other doc found the Hashi's. I
know if my first dr. was still practicing, he'd have been able to
treat everything for me. I even still continued seeing him even
though my insurance wouldn't pay for it (HMO's..grrr)so I picked a
name from out of the insurance book and made her my primary....I will
be looking for a different one of those too. Thanks again for the
offer and I hope you start feeling better soon.
Debbie

I couldn't agree with you more and I believe MANY here will agree
also.
It IS better to have a VERY GOOD Family Practictioner than a BAD
endocrinologist. Unfortunately, the medical world doesn't train
endo's in depth with hypothyroid problems compared to diabetes and
half the time, they're so pressed for time, they listen (halfway) and
send you out the door. Well, at least mine does. Ugh...
Dealing with this disease has been a total learning experience for me
as it will for you too.
I'm considering choosing my next insurance company( Yes, we HAVE to
change for 2003 ) by what alternative therapies they allow. I just
don't believe that Western medicine has all the answers. NOW, I have
heard from one or two people here that say going to their natureopath
did nothing for them. Each to his own I guess.
It's going to take you a little while to feel better probably on the
synthroid if your brain fog is that bad(I KNOW exactly what you are
talking about!!). I'm glad you are already on the trail to look for
another doc. We HAVE to take our health in our own hands.
Renee P.

Debbie,
Thanks for your reply. I hope you too find someone who
will help you in your quest for better treatment. Mary
Shomans new book arrived on my doorstep this morning
and I cannot wait to start reading it.
<I was told by him that he hadn't been keeping current
about Hashimoto's, and it had been a while since he'd
done any research into it!
Well if the Endo's aren't keeping up with current
thinking and the patients end up knowing more than the
consultants, the god help those relying on their
General Practitioner to keep them well.
I hope we all find the right practitioner for our
health. Thanks for everyones help and advice,
Ali
--- Debbie <greyeyes1956@...
<HR
<html
<tt
I had my first endo appt. today and let me tell you it
was the worse <BR
appt. I've ever had with any kind of doc!&nbsp; First
of all I have <BR
Hashi's, have had two TPO's to verify that the first
one wasn't a <BR
false positive and the last one had nearly tripled
since the first <BR
test I'd had done.&nbsp; I went in there prepared, had
the lists of all my <BR
symptoms and list of questions.&nbsp; Well, after
about the third sentence <BR
from this guy's mouth, I was told by him that he
hadn't been keeping <BR
"current about Hashimoto's" and it had been
awhile since he'd done any <BR
research into it!"&nbsp; I think I should have
gotten up right then and <BR
left but I thought well hold on and see how it
goes.&nbsp; After the whole <BR
20 minutes or less initial consultation, he sent me
out the door with <BR
a script for .025 mg of synthroid and 10 days worth of
10 mg Ambien.&nbsp; <BR
As I was checking out, he said "I doubt that the
synthroid is going to <BR
help you at all" but I'll see you back here in
one month and be sure <BR
to get the blood tests (TSH, free T4, and free T3)
done one week <BR
before you come back here.&nbsp; Needless to say, I
doubt that I will go <BR
back to see him and since he gave me a 3-month supply
of synthroid, it <BR
will give me time to set up an appt. with another
endo.&nbsp; <BR
<BR
I am hoping that the synthroid will help alleviate
some of these <BR
symptoms and I start feeling a little better then I
have been.&nbsp; At <BR
least I did get the Ambien and am hoping that this
will help me get <BR
back to some kind of normal sleep pattern as I'm up
almost every hour <BR
on the hour every night and know that the sleep
deprivation is a major <BR
contibuting factor as to how I've been feeling.<BR
<BR
I was also very disappointed that this man felt I
could go back to <BR
work tomorrow, after being off for almost six weeks
because of the <BR
hypo symptoms, and that he had a conversation with my
primary and told <BR
her that my thyroid situation isn't bad enough to
warrant my being off <BR
work.&nbsp; The man asked me what I did for work, I
gave him my title, and <BR
he didn't ask me any more about it even though I told
him I had a very <BR
stressfull, very detail oriented position and that the
main reason I <BR
had been off work was due to the "brain fog"
and that it was driving <BR
me totally crazy not being able to think
straight.&nbsp; I even had trouble <BR
communicating with him as I would just go blank trying
to find the <BR
words I wanted to say to him and felt like a
stuttering fool!<BR
<BR
So, I am going to go to the top docs list and see if I
can get into <BR
one of them.&nbsp; I've seen the list of names for my
area and of course <BR
none of them are in my HMO insurance plan.&nbsp; If I
don't start feeling <BR
any better on this synthroid in a few weeks, I will
seek another <BR
opinion from somebody else.&nbsp; I mean I know that
there's no cure for <BR
Hashi's and I knew I'd either be walking out of the
endo's office with <BR
some kind of thyroid med or nothing at all because of
all I've read <BR
and that some endos will prescribe a low dose thyroid
med to see if it <BR
helps alleviate some symptoms and others will not
prescribe anything. <BR
But for this man to come out and tell me he hasn't
been keeping <BR
current and then didn't know anything about some of
the things I said <BR
I'd read, that's pretty bad!!&nbsp; So for all of you
that think an endo <BR
will definitely help, do yourselves a favor and find
one that somebody <BR
else has already seen and has been helped.<BR
<BR
Debbie in Florida<BR
<BR
<BR
</tt
<br
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC
<td align=center

I had my first endo appt. today and let me tell you it was the worse
appt. I've ever had with any kind of doc! First of all I have
Hashi's, have had two TPO's to verify that the first one wasn't a
false positive and the last one had nearly tripled since the first
test I'd had done. I went in there prepared, had the lists of all my
symptoms and list of questions. Well, after about the third sentence
from this guy's mouth, I was told by him that he hadn't been keeping
"current about Hashimoto's" and it had been awhile since he'd done any
research into it!" I think I should have gotten up right then and
left but I thought well hold on and see how it goes. After the whole
20 minutes or less initial consultation, he sent me out the door with
a script for .025 mg of synthroid and 10 days worth of 10 mg Ambien.
As I was checking out, he said "I doubt that the synthroid is going to
help you at all" but I'll see you back here in one month and be sure
to get the blood tests (TSH, free T4, and free T3) done one week
before you come back here. Needless to say, I doubt that I will go
back to see him and since he gave me a 3-month supply of synthroid, it
will give me time to set up an appt. with another endo.
I am hoping that the synthroid will help alleviate some of these
symptoms and I start feeling a little better then I have been. At
least I did get the Ambien and am hoping that this will help me get
back to some kind of normal sleep pattern as I'm up almost every hour
on the hour every night and know that the sleep deprivation is a major
contibuting factor as to how I've been feeling.
I was also very disappointed that this man felt I could go back to
work tomorrow, after being off for almost six weeks because of the
hypo symptoms, and that he had a conversation with my primary and told
her that my thyroid situation isn't bad enough to warrant my being off
work. The man asked me what I did for work, I gave him my title, and
he didn't ask me any more about it even though I told him I had a very
stressfull, very detail oriented position and that the main reason I
had been off work was due to the "brain fog" and that it was driving
me totally crazy not being able to think straight. I even had trouble
communicating with him as I would just go blank trying to find the
words I wanted to say to him and felt like a stuttering fool!
So, I am going to go to the top docs list and see if I can get into
one of them. I've seen the list of names for my area and of course
none of them are in my HMO insurance plan. If I don't start feeling
any better on this synthroid in a few weeks, I will seek another
opinion from somebody else. I mean I know that there's no cure for
Hashi's and I knew I'd either be walking out of the endo's office with
some kind of thyroid med or nothing at all because of all I've read
and that some endos will prescribe a low dose thyroid med to see if it
helps alleviate some symptoms and others will not prescribe anything.
But for this man to come out and tell me he hasn't been keeping
current and then didn't know anything about some of the things I said
I'd read, that's pretty bad!! So for all of you that think an endo
will definitely help, do yourselves a favor and find one that somebody
else has already seen and has been helped.
Debbie in Florida

In a message dated 10/23/2002 1:47:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aisadora@... writes:
Dear Andrea,
On <A HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa081197.htm#3"
I personally do better without it. I know you need iodine for
thyroid health but IMO, taking iodine in a supplement on top of all the other
salted products I might consume in a day that also contain iodine (b/c all
salt for commercial grade food products in the US has iodine added) seems to
be overkill for my system.
You, however, are different and may not be bothered by too much iodine.
It could be some of the "food based additives" that are offending you. There
is a current rage in the supplement business toward adding food based
ingredients--powdered foods--such as the kind you're taking. I've read the
labels on a bunch of them, hoping one might work for me, but I have been
disappointed because they usually contain at least one <A
HREF="http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/faqs/natural/goi.htm"
not
more. Powdered greens such as spinach, broccoli, beet, chard, kale, brussels
sprouts, etc., are popular to add to these kinds of supplements. All of them
are goitrogens. I would suggest you look at a list of goitrogens and then
see if any of them are in your multi in a powdered form. If they are, sad to
say, you'll need to look for a new product.
To better health,
Linda

First of all thank you all for responding . Here is what I found on
examination of my multi- vits . Iodine (from kelp)117.5 mcg/78%rda...
Although it does state NO SOY , there are a number of herbs , to many
to list. I have always really liked this brand because it is a food
based vitamin and doesn't cause stomach upset, BTW its not cheap its
$30 for a months supply .
So here is my big quandary , is iodine bad or helpful ? Im so tired
of mixed opinions from Drs and experts what is the truth... how does
it affect all of you ????? Thank you all, again Andrea

Thanks Sally!
I live in South Yorkshire and as I have said to Linda,
there are a couple that are within a an hour or so
travelling from me in Manchester and Hull. I will give
them a ring and see how much they charge and then see
if I can make an appointment with them.
Thanks for your advice and thanks for listening,
Ali.
--- Sally Lazarus <sal@...
<HR
<html
<tt
Hi Ali<BR
<BR
I really sympathise with your predicament. Where in
the UK do you live?<BR
There is a good endo in Bristol - Dr Colin Dayan, who
is conducting a T3<BR
trial and will prescribe T3 to people who have not
improved on T4 alone. I<BR
have been told that you can ask for a referral to him
even if you live<BR
outside the area.<BR
<BR
If you want more details, there are people who see him
on the about.com UK<BR
thyroid board:<BR
<a
href="http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroiduk/start"
roiduk/start</a
as well as others who can point<BR
you in the direction of other good endos.<BR
<BR
Good luck<BR
<BR
Sally<BR
<BR

In a message dated 10/23/2002 9:54:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aisadora@... writes:
Dear Andrea,
Yes, it could be timing if it has <A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa092101a.htm"
Calcium needs to be taken
away from thyroid meds by at least two hours.
Or, it could be you're allergic to something in the multi. I have often had
this problem. When I switched to an iron and iodine free multi, I've done
much better and I even feel good taking it. No more exhaustion. No more
tiredness.
Read the fine print on your multi-vitamin to see what the other ingredients
are in it. Does it declare it is free of soy? If not, it likely has it in
there and soy is a major goitrogen. Also make sure there are no powdered
goitrogens in it like powdered broccoli, spinach, kale, etc. You might be
getting too much iodine so consider trying a muliple w/o it. Twinlab
(Allergy One A Day) and Nature's Life (One Daily Multiple) are the only
companies I've found offering an iodine and/or iron free multi.
Good luck,
Linda

Andrea,
There is probably a goitrogenic ingredient in the vitamin you're
taking. I would try another vitamin supplement, but only after you've
checked all the ingredients to make sure there are no goitrogens in
it.
Best wishes,
Celeste
(from a laptop on vacation in Kona)

Hi Ali
I really sympathise with your predicament. Where in the UK do you live?
There is a good endo in Bristol - Dr Colin Dayan, who is conducting a T3
trial and will prescribe T3 to people who have not improved on T4 alone. I
have been told that you can ask for a referral to him even if you live
outside the area.
If you want more details, there are people who see him on the about.com UK
thyroid board:
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroiduk/start as well as others who can point
you in the direction of other good endos.
Good luck
Sally

I was taking a very good quality multi vitamin. And I was feeling
pretty bad and now I stoped taking it and three days later Im feeling
better . So I would think maybe it is TIMING ? However , I take my
meds at 5 am and dont eat until 8 am . Then I was taking my Vitamins
at 9am and agian before bed . I still want to take a vitamin
supplement (I have always taken one ) but now I dont know what to
think ?? Any thoughts ??? Andrea

Yes I found that article very useful for myself. My
doctor is making nine of the mistakes listed (one is
linked to hyperthyroidism that didn't apply to me I
don't think) I took it to show her but if looks could
kill......
I asked her what the Endo consultant had told her
about treating my hashis (it is okay for her to get
advice from an endo but won't refer me!) she said that
I should stay on the levothyroxine and no T3. When I
said that after nearly 12 months of being diagnosed I
still felt like sh*t a lot of the time she said that I
wouldn't be cured overnight. I accept that it could
have taken a few months but I expected to be feeling a
little better after 12 months. I also asked her about
a full thyroid function screen and she refused. I said
that surely if my thyroid gland is being attacked and
destroyed by my antibodies it would be wise to look at
how much is now defunct. She said that my TSH was fine
and that there was no need to do a full function
screen.
I ended by almost screeming at her that I don't feel
well and she had the cheek to suggest it was my home
life and not my thyroid that was making me feel ill.
My home life is fine and I don't normally suffer
anxiety attacks, intolerance to cold etc, etc, unless
my TSH is going up. She said I will have to wait for
my next blood test and see what my TSH is.
ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! *bang* *bang* (head against
wall)
I am so fustrated I could cry. Even if I ask for
referral again it will only be to the Endo that has
just accepted that my GP is doing the right thing.
Even if I swap GP's for a referral it will be to the
same Endo consultant again. I feel like I am in a no
win situation and I can't really afford private care.
I have ordered Mary Shomans new book on auto immune
disorders in a hope to find something in there I can
use. But I have already been frowned upon by my GP for
using the internet as my source of information and
support about my hashi's.
Sorry about my little rant but once I got
started......still I am sure most of you know how I
feel after reading the posts on here.
Thanks for listening,
ali
--- annah1149@... wrote:
<HR
<html
<tt
Here's an article by Mary Shomon in her latest online
newletter:<BR
<BR
&lt;A HREF="<a
href="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa091702a.htm"
t.com/library/weekly/aa091702a.htm</a
Thyroid Mistakes Your Doctor May Be
Making!&lt;/A&gt;<BR
<BR
The first one on the list is "Frocusing on the
Numbers instead of on How You <BR
Feel!"<BR
<BR
The rest of the list is more of the same things we've
been discussing here.&nbsp; <BR
I think this one is a keeper for my permanent files to
send out to newbies <BR
when they ask for advice!<BR
<BR
Linda<BR
<BR
<BR
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR
<BR
</tt
<br
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<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC
<td align=center

Today I had a monthly check up for my blood pressure. This time, he
wants me back in 3 months for a blood pressure check. I had readings
that were taken in the dr.'s office on campus for the past few weeks
and they were all good. Then today in the office, it was high, and
the dr. was just like "well, it looks like u just have dr. office
anxiety" and split my dosage of my blood pressure medication in half.
He took blood and is going to take my TSH, T3 and T4 levels, and then
will get back to me. We discussed my weight loss issue (the fact that
I can't lose any) and he gave me a month's supply of some stuff
called Xenical (has anyone taken this?) which is a fat blocker. And
he also gave me a flu shot while I was in there. I guess that's it. I
can't wait to get back the thyroid results, so then maybe we get can
my dosage semi-figured out...for now anyway.

Rhonda ((((((((hugs))))))))))
I had something SO similar happen to me...It almost ended in a lawsuit!
A jr. medical staff came to take my history, and without informing me, wrote
horrible lies about me in the history.
I found out accidentally later. The doctor's office got a sanction slapped
on them by the health dept.
It was awful. The history took over 90 minutes. They wrote down in their
chart that I was lying about my career, and education. (It came up as they
asked where I had gotten which tests done in the past, and I had lived
overseas). They suggested nothing was medically wrong with me, and that I
only needed psychiatric intervention because of the 'lies' I 'made up' about
my career and education. (Sorry got the degree hanging right here on the
wall, and a website about my work overseas!!!) It was also medically very
dangerous of them to falsely use this horrible label, because it turned out I
had parvovirus, plus an autoimmune condition, that ended up being totally
non-investigated because of the 'mental' label. Their stupidity also
contributed to two miscarriages because of the parvo and AI+.
It was beyond shocking and abusive. Not to mention incredibly stupid. The
jr. staff person had only been on this first job out of school for a month.
It still hurts to think about it a year later.
The big conclusion my husband and I reached was that when they CAN'T figure
out what is wrong with you, you must be crazy. EVEN WORSE, to label a female
patient with 'female mental disorders' like pms etc. is just too juvenile
for words. It is the lowest common denominator of the worst possible medical
care. I would continue your search for a good doctor and a full diagnosis.
Do you know it took over a year of trying new drs to finally get the
information just 6 weeks ago that I have a major autoimmune disorder. I have
since joined several online groups for AI. You would not believe HOW MANY
WOMEN get the same horrible treatment that we got, being labeled 'mental'
because they can't figure out what is wrong.
It is so arrogant and condescending of them. And so thoroughly
unprofessional
I contacted an autoimmune society in Michigan when I found out my first + AI
blood result this September. They nicely sent me a packet of info. The main
point of the packet is that it is really really hard to get a proper
diagnosis, and it even said that along the journey to finally getting a true
diagnosis, many patients are labeled mental. Such a sad situation. I guess
drs. are arrogant, and have a hard time admitting they don't know all the
answers, and when they are presented with an unclear medical problem, their
insecurity causes them to reach for their 'mental' labels to slap on our
charts. Awful.
I remember in graduate school learning that the root of the word hysterectomy
of course comes from hysteria, and a century ago, this was male drs. way of
controlling female behavior. Cut out the uterus. It actually recurred again
abusively in the 50s and 60s. There are entire books written about it.
There was a rash of hysterectomy surgeries, and when it finally caught the
authorities attention, it turned out that drs were in collusion to perform
high #s of totally unnecessary hysterectomies because they didn't know what
else to do for any gyn complaint, and it was the procedure that got them the
most$$$.
Anyway don't settle, sorry you met a bunch of losers there. It sounded
promising in your earlier email. I would keep researching on google.com,
join online groups, keep looking for the answers.
What is TPO by the way?
Praying for you!
Kitty

Yup my doc has me taking armour 30 twice a day. He is adamant that once a
day is too much of a roller coaster, and that twice a day at a smaller dosage
gives much better support to the body
xoxo
Kitty
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:00:22 -0000
From: "pnutmm92647" <skyqtee@...
Subject: Hi !
Hi !
I was wondering if anyone is taking NatureThroid by WesternResearch
Labs. I was told that it is suited for people with allergies.
My doctor prescribed 1/2 grain in morning and 1/2 grain in afternoon.
Was wondering if anyone is also splitting the dosages like this.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
-Jan

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:39:35 -0000
From: "Cindy Kautzmann" <kautzm@...
Does anyone know if you are not supposed to take homeopathic supplements if
you have an autoimmune disorder? Wouldn't it basically overstim. the immune
system even more?
xoxo
Kitty
Subject: Re: For better or worse
my thyroid I would feel worse than I do on days that it isn't. The
way I understand it, building my immune system would actually be bad
because then it would be all that much stronger to destroy my
thyroid! I might not understand it right though. I do know that
echinacea, which is a great immune system strengthener, is not
supposed to be taken by people with autoimmune disorders.
He said responding with thyroid med wwouldn't work because there's no
way to predict when I'll need more. I've read of some people with
holistic doc's who are told they can take extra T3 when they feel
they need it, but right now I can't seem to get the hang of the T3 at
all. I'm having a rough time adjusting to it but I feel so much more
mentally alert and just all around energetic and BETTER (not to
mention less swollen) that I'm going to stick with it a little longer
and hope for the best...

Some people do well on a split dose but I didn't so I take 90 mg of Armour
all in the a.m. Sometimes you have to experiment.
Gracia

Hi! I just joined this hypothyroidism support group and thought I
would send a little hello...
I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism earlier this year after about a
year of consistent weight gain. I am a petite person, 4'11",
weighing in at only 90 pounds. (I'm 27.) I didn't notice the slow
increase in weight and when I did, I chalked it up to inactivity and
perhaps I wasn't eating QUITE as well as I could. I started going to
the gym and eating light. I gained more weight (and it wasn't muscle
weight!) When I weighed myself and discovered I was 20 pounds over
my normal weight, I went to the doctor with concerns about my
metabolism. The last time I remember being close to my normal weight
was last summer. He sent me for a full run of blood tests and
discovered the hypot