Mark's Blog

Third thing I wonder is does a very low TSH really always mean a
person is
Linda/All,
I'm beginning to wonder the same thing. Although, my experience with
going "hyper" is just that - I was hyper BUT not in a positive way.
My hands shook, mood swings, etc...and when I was tested, sure
enough, it was .04. I KNOW when I go hyper. However, the more I read
on these BB's is that EVERYONE is SO different and we have such
complex makeups that everyone responds differently.
BY the way, if anyone is taking a tally, my doc is taking me off of
Armour and putting me back on Levothroid. I took it for a month and I
am currently SO tired I can't even take care of my son AND I'm now
pretty damned depressed. I'm hoping switching back to the Levoxyl( or
just T4) will be the answer for me.
Renee P

In a message dated 3/3/2003 2:34:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nabie67@... writes:
I hope so, too, Renee. Get well, soon!
Linda

In a message dated 3/3/2003 10:41:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tbowring@... writes:
Dear Tricia,
Sorry to hear you're getting heart flutters with your med. Sometimes it's a
tricky thing to get to an optimum doseage!
You post makes me wonder a couple of things. First, might Dr. Wilson's new
CardiaCare formula help your heart situation so you can continue on the 150
Thyrolar dose you feel best at? It might be worth a try. Your doctor has to
write a script for it unlike some of his other new formulas.
www.wilsonssyndrome.com
Second, I wonder what's causing the heart fluttering. Is it the T3? Or is
your body is loaded down with unconverted T4 and RT3 so the heart has to work
harder? If it could be the latter, then maybe you have too much T4 already?
Then maybe a trial dose of the timed release T3 (WT3) might be worth a try.
And since you don't stay on any specific dose of the WT3 very long because of
the cycling nature of the treatment, you might be better able to pinpoint how
much T3 (if any) is too much.
To get the WT3 you have to go to a compounding pharmacy. If you don't have
one in your area that makes it or is familiar with it, you doctor might know
of one. And if he dosen't know of one, I can send you info on mine (they
ship) or you can call the one Dr. Wilson uses in FL (they ship). If your
doctor is open to trying this medication, then all you'd need is for him and
you to get info on the doseages and the method of taking it, then call in a
prescription. Then you could start! If you're getting it by mail, you'll
need to anticipate when you'll need more so you don't run out.
Third thing I wonder is does a very low TSH really always mean a person is
hyper? I've been wondering this ever since the day I walked into my holistic
doc's office a year and a half ago with a TSH test reading .07. I DEFINITELY
was NOT hyper that day! In fact, I've never been so sick with hypo symptoms
in my entire life! Since my situation is due to inability to convert T4 to
T3 in my thyroid SYSTEM instead of an inability to produce thyroid hormone in
my thyroid GLAND, I wonder if TSH can truly be a meaningful indicator of
illness in my case? Or perhaps, yours? Unless, of course, it goes up to 10
or 40 or higher.
All the best,
Linda in LA

Hi, all. I'm taking Thyrolar (synthetic t3 and t4 combo). I had to
lower my dose, even tho all symptoms disappear when I take 1.25 to
1.50. My original dosage was supposed to be 1, but I upped it when
my symptoms started re-appearing. I was on 1.5 for about 1 week and
felt optimal, but then my heart started palpitating (really it was
more like the arterial fabrillation described in an earlier post).
I don't feel nearly as 'well' on this dosage, but I don't want to
have heart implications (it's a really uncomfortable, scary feeling).
By the way, I feel great but my tsh is .01 (was borderline before the
thyrolar). This is hyper right? Is the low level OK (healthwise)?
Any ideas? I wonder if I could get my doc to prescribe straight t3
timed release dose. Linda, how hard was it to get yours? Is it like
Thyrolar, where I have to call my pharmacy about a week before script
is out, because they don't have it stocked?
Thanks for any info!
Tricia

Michelle,
You are absolutely right!!..my great grandma lived to 99yrs and lived a
meat and potatoes life.And that is the key,...she didn't eat all of the
processed crap that is out today and their wasn't the pollution back in
the day like there is now to contaminate the water with thyroid
destroying agents.I think we are destroying ourselves with
convenience....microwave dinners,fast food,we work all day at a computer
and have to hire someone to do our yard work and house repairs instead
of getting out there and doing it ourselves.The products which are
suppose to protect our kids and us from bacteria and disease and
actually making us sick by destroying our thyroid and keeping our kids
from being exposed to bacteria and viruses to become IMMUNE from
them.Look around at the neighborhood kids and you will see that the ones
whose parents keep their kids spotless and in front of the computer and
TV all day are sick A LOT more than the kids you see playing outside on
their bikes,rolling in the dirt in their backyard playing baseball then
picking up their lunch with dirty fingers.We had a bad flu that was
going around several towns last month and they even closed a few schools
because of it.I was asked by a friend of mine why my kids never missed
school being sick and I told him that all I do is rub my kids in the
dirt every couple of days,....Hehehe....But anyway,sorry for the long
post but I so wish that parents would unplug those TV's and computers
and tell their kids to get outside and play.I think the world would be a
lot happier in the future!!
Deneen:)

I have heard that the Adkins Diet is pretty good Thyroid diseases -- perhaps
someone might know of a link to one on the net,...
As to the difficulty in losing weight -- well the way that my Doctor explained
it to me -- is because the hormone levels go so low -- that the pituitary gland
in the brain becomes confused and when we go to eat food it does not know enough
to break the food down into small pieces and instead it stores it as fat.
Does this make sense -- tried to explain it the best possible.
Charmaine
Has anyone out there tried these diets????? I am thinking about the Sugar
Busters as I have diabetes and well-for obvious reasons I think that would work.
I just don't understand how "Thyroid disease" can be so dang hard to lose
weight.
Wendy

Has anyone out there tried these diets????? I am thinking about the Sugar
Busters as I have diabetes and well-for obvious reasons I think that would work.
I just don't understand how "Thyroid disease" can be so dang hard to lose
weight.
Wendy

You know, I have to wonder how my deceased relatives, most of them lived
to be over 100 years old, managed to survive and live their lives
without magnets, TENS machines, bottled water and processed foods filled
with preservatives. I feel silly when I think about it, but every day
when I make my daughter's bottles I do it with water from our faucet
filter or with bottled water if we're not at home. (And I wash her
bottles in detergent and bleach then sterilize them in the microwave) Of
course, sometime during the day she eats a piece of dirt that her dad
tracked on the carpet or a roly poly bug that wandered into the house.
She touches the cat's butt then puts her hands in her mouth before I can
retrieve a washcloth. Inevitably, if the cookie/cracker falls on the
ground and mommy doesn't see it then it goes right back into the mouth.
But I continue to fork over money to filter the "impurities" out of her
water after it goes through the water treatment plant. The child would
eat her own poop if I turned my head for a second! Anyway, my grandma
lived a long, healthy, happy life and she ate full fat beef and chicken
and pork, biscuits and gravy for breakfast, sometimes even chocolate
gravy! My grandfather ate raw bacon! They drank water that came out of
a well where rain fell, washing the pollution from the air as it came
down, and where my cousins liked to spit and count how long it took for
it to hit the water. The drinking water! And, yes, they ate dairy,
straight from the cow and wheat, straight from the fields. She didn't
use a special vegetable wash to wash the veggies when they came out of
the garden. So, yes, I agree with you. SOMEBODY out there is trying to
make a buck! They get my $20 every other month when I buy a new water
filter, $40 for the bottle sterilizer, etc. But you know what? They'll
continue to get it because society has made me feel like I'm a bad mom
if I make my baby's bottles with water straight from the faucet and if a
single germ ends up on her bottles then I'll be responsible for a
lifetime of illness. They have succeeded in brainwashing me. And if
they came out with a "miracle cure" for my thyroid problems tomorrow I'd
probably empty my savings to try it. It's called "having a little hope"
for making life just a little bit better.

In a message dated 3/1/2003 5:52:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
slpedigo@... writes:
Dear SaraLou,
Well said!
Thanks,
Linda

So many cows these days are given hormones, which passes into the milk.
It's been theorized that girls are getting way too much estrogen from
drinking cow's milk and that's why the average age for girls to start
their period has dropped from 15/16 to 11/12. I don't drink milk
because it's high in carbs, but when I did I only drank organic milk and
that's all my daughter will drink when she quits drinking formula
(which, by the way, is cow milk based, not soy based). Not that soy is
bad, but I don't think it's any better than organic hormone-free cow's
milk. I'm also convinced that my daughter will have thyroid problems
partly because her normal temp is 96.5 and I don't want to facilitate it
by giving her soy.

We're not exactly sure. I'm seeing an endocrinologist next week because
I've had so many problems with my thyroid that my GP is baffled. My doc
did tell me that some people have receptor problems and no matter how
much medicine you give them their body doesn't process it correctly.
I've been on 200mcg of Synthroid before and am on 175 right now (my TSH
is still 10!) and that just blows away any new doctors or pharmacists
because they rarely prescribe anything that high.

I have a theory, Renee.
It has to do with genetic engineering of grain and the world market for grain
and for the use of grain refuse. Soya beans are huge business. Once oil heated
and at huge temps, pressed out of them, there's still a lot of "bean" left.
Can't be given to livestock--they die, or at least fail to thrive.
Sally Fallon and Dr. Mary Enig have done quite a bit of work on the negative
aspects (as well as confirming the positive ones) of soya. Search for their
names. They are not paid by ADM though the meat people may donate to their
work.
By the way, as I understand the studies I've read, it's true, Asian cultures
have used soya for thousands of years. The soya bean they've used for those
thousands of years is NOT the genetically modified bean raised in acre upon acre
here in the US. In addition, soya products were eaten ALWAYS fermented and as a
condiment, never a main course. How much tofu have you seen that's fermented?
Now, I also have concluded that fluoridated water is bad for most people as is
chlorinated water--the fluoride is from fertilizer waste.
Cow's milk? It's kind of in the same place at this point as bread. Full of
fake stuff and preservatives. You can't ship stuff across this incredible
country of ours, or our neighbors to the north, and have it arrive unspoiled
without altering it. Once altered, it'll affect the body significantly
differently than the way God made it to be used.
The young woman who wrote earlier on the list who wants to believe altruism is
the motive for MD's, probably is true to begin with of many of them,
unfortunately, much of it doesn't last long. When you consider that at this
moment, there's a big brouhaha with the FDA and I don't remember who to ban the
sale of the herb Ephedra because nearly 100 people have died using it, thinking
people have to wonder what's going on. I mean, the JAMA itself published that
quarter of a million people a year die from bad medical practice--whether it's
the doc prescribing the wrong meds, transplanting the wrong organ, giving a
blood transfusion that's the wrong type or an interaction of meds. Do you know
how many people have died as a result of taking lipitor--a popular cholesterol
drug? Or what about the suicides of those on prozac and Lilly's spin-offs? Way
more than one hundred but because the drug industry (aahhhhh my glorious Eli
Lilly stock!!) is in control.
Our medical school system (limits class size so they can manipulate demand) and
our drug manufacturers and the agencies in charge of policing them are all in
bed together (interlocking directorates, former employees, etc.) That's the way
things are done here and now.
Lots of challenges.
Since I have a friend with Celiac Sprue and since my entire family periodically
goes off white stuff--flour, sugar--salt-- with great benefit, I don't think
this is "trendy" stuff. I do understand. I kinda figure soya (and all the
hydrogenated vegetable oils that aren't fit for human consumption--trans fats)
is the "margarine" of this century. You know, the authorities said margarine
was goooood for you. Now they've had to face some un profitable facts about how
fat is heated/treated in terms of it being good for you.
Keep reading and pray for discernment.
It's your body, not theirs. Given to you to take care of, not them.
SaraLou

Hypothryrodism List.
May i have your opinion about the following ?
I have founf this new product, could it have a bad interaction
with thyroides ??
Osvaldo
_______
Astaxanthin is a high-performance carotenoid harvested from microalgae
grown off the Hawaiian coast. This microalgae provides the most
concentrated source of Astaxanthin known, delivering 10,000 - 40,000
mg/kg.
"Compared to many popular antioxidants, Astaxanthin has more
applications, greater antioxidant efficacy, and the ability to enhance the
activity of other antioxidants and carotenoids," said Ed Lemmo, Ph.D.,
R.D., CDN Vice President, Product Development, XXXX Vitamin and
Herb.
_______

It's not your Doctor's fault - he went to medical school and that's
what they taught him. I also was automatically given Levoxyl and was
on it for a year but everything didn't clear up like it should have.
I found an "alternative" doctor( he has a medical degree BUT he also
practices other non-mainstream treatments). Look for someone like
that if you can. My guy is REALLY expensive BUT he's giving me Armour
and he's got a good name with thyroid related problems.
Good luck!
Renee P

Hi all,
John mentioned this is his e-mail( talking about bogus treatments).
This brought up a question for me as a mother.
Why is there such a push in this country to get off of cow's milk and
go to SOY milk? My God, if WE did it, we'd all be dead.
I don't try to eat any soy protein and sure as Hell aren't giving it
to my child. I do give my child organic milk though, so that's
something.
Can someone explain this big push to get rid of cow's milk?
Are we ever going to be able to tell the real findings from the
bogus "trendy" ones?
Thanks,
Renee

I have to stand with John 100% here. I think so much crap I have seen
is exactly that-a load of crap. I have seen so much stuff come across
this board in the last few months contradicting itself. Person A
swears by something that doesn't work for Person B and Person A gets
all defensive about it. Maybe like John said, this is just my crazy
thyroid or something, maybe it's the fact that I'm 20 and lacking
some maturity level, but maybe I have just figured out there are too
many people out there who just want to make money. I have an aunt who
did the magnet thing for some ailment, and it made no difference for
her. I think the dairy and wheat stuff, as John said, is crap. And
most importantly, I DO NOT think the medical world, such as doctors,
is out to get us. I honestly think they try their hardest and
sometimes the thyroid stuff is something that doesn't make sense
until you're actually there, having problems. They aren't trying to
play dumb, they just don't understand-but I know quite a few doctors
who really are trying. Some of this probably doesn't make much sense
to y'all but I'm running on about 3 hours of sleep (slumber party
last nite). I think we just need to be more skeptical of some of this
stuff and yes, not believe everything we hear, but at the same time,
remember that something that works for one person may not work for
the next, because people's bodies are just different-and then
actually RESPECT that instead of getting defensive. Let's not assume
doctors are out to get us. Just some thoughts and some things I've
been wanting to get out for a while now.
Eden
Oh, and John? Yes, living is bad, everything is a cancer causing
agent, and we would all be perfect if we didn't eat dairy and wheat.
HAH!

Michelle writes:
What causes the levels to go so high? My son's TSH level was 150, and I'm
still stunned that it could be so high.
Jenelle

Hi I hate to scoff at these ideas but I do think they are crap and put about by
somebody who is making money.

are all labs now conforming to this new TSH range?... or will it take a
while?
Karen

Are there any members in this group that are from Ontario, Canada.
I find that in the United States that allot of laboratories that do the blood
work -- are acknowledging the what is considered to be the norm for TSH levels
to now be that of 0.3 -3 -- here in my own laboratory of MDS Laboratories they
still recognize the norm to be that of 0.5 to 5.0 -- I wonder if they will ever
get with the program.
Charmaine

A few people including myself have been interested in different diets available
to those of us with hypothyroidism and/or auto-immune diseases.
Here is a link I came upon that might be of interest.
Hope some might find what they are looking for in it.
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thyroid-in\
fo.com%2Fdietbook.htm
Charmaine

The following link was forwarded to you by a visitor to About,
http://home.about.com.
Charmaine thought that you would be interested in:
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aanewtshrange.htm
from thyroid disease site, an About Site.
Find support, answers and inspiration. Explore traditional and alternative
treatments, learn techniques for coping with symptoms, diet, drugs and fertility
issues. From about.com.
Charmaine also wanted to add the following comment:
I wish that here in Canada that the laboratories that do the testing for TSH
Levels would consider the new normals levels -- this would leave for so many
people going unnecessarily untreated.
Please note the this email was initiated by Charmaine, not by personnel
at About or the thyroid disease site. About does not monitor
these emails, nor can we be responsible for any comments or contents
forwarded by the sender. We hope you enjoy the recommended page
and remind you that you can always access About directly at
http://home.about.com.

this is a very interesting theory. magnets are said to return the body, as
well as parts of the endocrine system, back to homostasis or bodily balance.
this page will explain why and they have magnets that are really really
cheap. i have a pair myself and i feel so energized and relaxed at the same
time.
www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=feelgoodagain
*irene

In a message dated 2/27/2003 3:40:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mrscamper2003@... writes:
Dear Mrs,
Do you feel your mother is a danger to herself or others? If you do, you
need to get help for her immediately! I don't know what it's called where
you live, but here in LA County, we can call for a Psychiatric Mobile
Response Team for someone who won't seek help voluntarily but who is a danger
to themselves or others. The law allows them to be kept up to three days,
meet with a psychiatrist and medical doctor to get them the medicine they
need and try to get them stabilized. It could be your mother has mental
illness AND hypothyroidism. Or the hypothyroidism could be so severe she
exhibits all the symptoms of mania and truly can't act in her own best
interests. There have been times when I was really sick with hypothyroidism
before I could convince any doc to give me medicine for my illness that I
thought I mentally ill! So, I know it can make you THAT sick!
You can call NAMI (National Alliance for Mentally Ill--800-950-6264) for
help, referral, knowledge about laws and support groups in your local area.
I don't know what the familiarity would be with hypothyroidism with them. I
kept that pretty quiet and personal when we were seeking help for our
daughter. We received marvelous help, however, from our local AMI leaders
and groups when our children had breakdowns and were scaring us silly.
A year ago, my 24 y/o daughter experienced a severe manic episode which
sounds similar to what you report about your mom. Hypothyroidism was
definitely part of the equation for her, though not for her older brother.
Unfortunately, I was the only person advocating for treatment of that part of
her body! I got her put on Armour thyroid and it helped her through the
worst part of the mania. Of course she was also on heavy mood stabilizers,
anti-psychotic drugs, sleeping aids, etc. Since I knew her tendency toward
hypothyroidism, I researched all of her mind drugs before she took them to
make sure they had no adverse affect on her thyroid. That meant lithium was
out of the picture, which is a great thing, too, because it's a terrible
weight gainer drug.
Here are some links I found with some information about bipolar and
hypothyroidism. I hope they help some. You could also do a search on Google
on something like "mental illness and hypothyroidism."
I feel so sad to hear about the suffering you and your family are going
through with your mom. I do hope you find some help, relief, and support
soon! Keepin touch, Linda in LA
http://bipolar.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medhelp.
org%2Fforums%2Fmentalhealth%2Fmessages%2F30086a.html
http://bipolar.about.com/library/qa/bl-qa-lithium-sfx.htm?terms=hypothyroid
http://www.psycheducation.org/thyroid/introduction.htm#treatment

Oh dear God...you poor thing. Why did she stop taking the meds? Did
she honestly think that the pharmacist was poisoning her or
something? If so, you might have a bigger thing going on than just
her thyroid UNLESS she was being totally under treated.
If you can, do some research in your area on endo's that could help
her, GET HER IN THERE! If you have to drug her to get her there!!!
As you can see by our current discussion, PLEASE don't let them
automatically put her on psychosis (sp?) drugs. You're probably right
about the thyroid. Heck, she may even have nodules or something else
on it taxing her system.
Good luck, whatever you end up doing!!!
Renee P

Hi,
My mother was diagnosed with a hypothyroid about 8 years ago. I have
looked around on the web and I see that psychosis is often mentioned
as a symptom of hypothyroid, but I rarely see much more about it.
Last fall, my mother stopped taking her Synthroid. She said she
didn't like the way the pharmacist looked or something. She has since
gotten more and more irrational and...well, crazy.
She thinks my dad has shrunken and that he has actually been replaced
by someone else. She calls me daily crying that she wants her old
husband back. She thinks he puts drugs in her food and drinks and
therefore will not drink or eat anything he has been near. At one
point, she said she thought someone had imbedded drugs in the carpet
so it was absorbed through her skin when she walked on it in bare
feet.
She has run away from home a couple times and that worries my whole
family immensely because she often claims of having blurry vision and
we hate her to even drive. Once when she ran away, she did pull over
to some random hospital and got her thyroid tested - the level was
65! They told her that she needed to be put on an IV right away but
she refused and then ran out of the hospital.
She will not see a doctor, go to a hospital, or even a psychiatrist.
Though it is not a mental illness we are dealing with, it is hard not
to think of it as one when she runs out of the house in her bath robe
and accuses my dad of being someone else.
Has anyone else out there encountered a similar situation? I'd like
to know that my problem isn't unique and that someone out there has
some personal experience that I could learn from.

Thanx Karen, but it bothers me that my Doc was ready to start
the "rest of your life" pills when 4 weeks later it's back in the
normal range. I was the one who requested the 2nd blood test.
If your TSH went down quicker than that, were you on meds yet?
Any reasons if you weren't on the meds that the thyroid or pituitary
would increase and decrease like that?
Catherine

In a message dated 2/27/2003 7:11:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dezign4you@... writes:
I haven't but am looking at the info on it longingly. So I, too, would love
to hear any feedback on it. I know I react strongly to bladderwrack, one of
the key ingredients, so I'm feeling very cautious about it.
Linda

Has anyone here tried Thyrocare which is recommeded on the Wilson's Thyroid
Treatment website? Thanks.

I don't think that's abnormal..... mine went down quicker than that.
welcome to the group!
Karen

Hi everyone, this is my first post. Last month my TSH value was 7.56
and my doc suggested I was hypothyroid and was ready to put me on
hormone replacement. I asked for a 2nd bloodtest and today's results
were TSH = 5.13! How can it go down that fast? Was one of the TSH
tests incorrect?
My Free T4 is .083 which is borderline low, also hinting at
hypothyroid. Has anyone else had their TSH levels drop so quickly
without medicine?

I ALMOST got put on Sarafem but I ended up getting pregnant instead!!
LOL! It was weird, my IM doc didn't want to prescribe it, he wanted
the OBGYN to prescribe it. She didn't want to start me on it unless
it happened two consecutive periods. By the way, I was pretty bad.
Maybe I'm lucky they didn't automatically just do it, huh? I guess so.
Renee P

I personally took Prozac about 7 years ago for my mental illness -- not to
frighten you in any way, but it did cause psychotic tendencies such as suicide
thoughts.
But you are doing the right thing by asking for a number of different opinions.
Charmaine
Hello everyone,
I went to a new OBGYN today and told her about my hormone problems
(irritability, tiredness, mood swings) which are bad about two weeks out of the
month on top of my thyroid problems. She didn't offer much help with the
thyroid (said it wasn't her speciality) which I can appreciate). Better than
most doctor's who just wing it. She did some hormone tests and I should get the
results back in a few days. Also, she prescribed Sarafem which I know is just
another name for Prozac. I'm afraid to start taking anti-depressants! Any
advice or comments from anybody who has taken this? Thanks.
Melanie

Hello everyone,
I went to a new OBGYN today and told her about my hormone problems
(irritability, tiredness, mood swings) which are bad about two weeks out of the
month on top of my thyroid problems. She didn't offer much help with the
thyroid (said it wasn't her speciality) which I can appreciate). Better than
most doctor's who just wing it. She did some hormone tests and I should get the
results back in a few days. Also, she prescribed Sarafem which I know is just
another name for Prozac. I'm afraid to start taking anti-depressants! Any
advice or comments from anybody who has taken this? Thanks.
Melanie

Hi all,
I have one question that has been burning and would really like to
ask it.
If you will notice, these lists list the foods, low to high, which is
fine. However, could you not combine a moderate to high glycemic food
with a protein to knock it down? From the bits I remember from Dr.
Arnot's book, if needed be, this could be done to give a little more
flexibility. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting to resent
diets that say, "absolutely no" to this or that. If I read this, I
quit reading it anymore. I know...moderation is the key BUT how do
you guys feel about the combining aspect?
Thanks,
Renee P

Welcome Janna,
I'm afraid I can't offer much real help at this point, myself, but
want to just say hi. I'm just figuring out the thyroid problem I was
just diagnosed with, myself, but don't feel bad about venting here.
We understand.
I have two preschoolers, too, and have just gotten the dr to admit
the TSH was too high - it got out of the 'normal' range this last
test. I've been soo tired for soooo long, and couldn't get anyone to
listen to me either. I don't have your stress levels, either! wow.
I think you'll find plenty of information - take care.
Kristie

Dear Folx,
Ok, we can dig up new stuff, read new articles, and of course go
and blow our money on doctors to find a cure or have them write a
prescription for experimental, or tried and true methods, but for
the most part, is there anything I could take to destroy this now
malfunctioning thyrod (I'm a hypo-thyroid sufferer) and find herbal
medicines that don't require doctor's prescription?
I've had major blood work done and came back negative or not at an
alarming rate! I wonder, what good is the medicine if there are
nobody but quacks who don't care but rip you off blind! I've had some
fits of depression, and lack of concentration, plus being shacked up
in special ed, ect didn't help! Is there any such thing as a non
prescription, or herbal, or vitamin supplement that I could go to?
If I go to GNC or some health nut store, what do I get for the
minerals, and vitamins I need to beat back or regain control of the
thyroid?
Any thoughts, or ideas? I'm on a limited budget and would love to
find a person in the Permian Basin (I'm new no insurance to both
Odessa and Midland) that could help me out? I'd appreciate it!
Micha'el

Is there a book called THE THYROID SYNDROME? I seem to remember
seeing it somewhere. Thanks, Meg

You might need ENOUGH thyroid meds (like Armour, that has T3 in it) plus
ENOUGH progesterone (cream works best). All the necessary hormones need to
be used together. Also DHEA very important!
Look at http://www.womensinternational.com
Gracia

<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aanewTSHrange.htm"
about.com/library/weekly/aanewTSHrange.htm</A
To all,
Above is a hyperlink to the Mary Shomon's lead article this week. AACE has
released new guidelines lowering TSH numbers worthy of treatment. They're
now saying TSH of .3-3 is normal!
While that's all well and good, when are they going to address treatment
without stigma for folks like me with .07 and definitely not hyper??? Who
said low thyroid is easy to treat? Not me!
Linda in LA

You might want to look at that book again! Broda Barnes MD was a genius
way ahead of his time!
Gracia

Today I just got a book out of the library called "Hypothyroidism The
Unsuspected Illness" published 1979.
There really is not much information in it -- as I thought there would be.
Can anybody recommend other books I might find at a library?
Thanks so much.
Charmaine

I'm impressed! Seventeen years old and you already know what it's taken
me 29 years to learn and what some people are still trying to learn.
Someone will be lucky to have you as a nutritionist or personal trainer
someday. I know I refuse to go to a nutritionist again because the last
two told me that I needed to eat more fruit, more potatoes, cereal,
milk. I can't imagine! The only other comment I have about you post is
that many "older" (meaning many of us who haven't seen our teenage years
in more than five years) people with hypo might have trouble even doing
30 minutes of cardio a day. For those of you who are nodding your head
in agreement right now, rest assured, if you start out even going 15
minutes a day and just add 5 minutes every few days you'll be able to
work your way up there. Another thing that really helped me when I was
only able to do 20 minutes at a time was interval training. I would
start out with a slow walk on the treadmill for five minutes to warm up
and then up the pace just a notch for one minute, up again for a minute
and so on. I would up my intensity at the end of every minute ten
times. By the tenth interval I was going as fast as I could go, really
pushing myself to the limit and then I'd drop back down to my initial
pace and start over again and work my way back up. You can do it as
many times as you want, but it's a great workout. It enabled me to
increase my stamina more in three days than just fast walking did in a
month.

Michelle, thanks so much for all of your help. When I first found out that I
had hypothyroidism -- I was really worried -- as I had an Aunt who's thyroid
problem got out of control to the point that the Doctor's could do nothing....
she died 2 years ago. This also runs in my family.
Charmaine
People with hypothyroidism usually are not like other overweight people
in that they are usually not overeaters or have other eating issues such
as eating mostly junk or fatty foods. Unfortunately, many of us eat
very little and are still unable to lose. I eat only when I'm starving.
I just have no desire to eat. As I explained to my husband earlier, I
don't necessarily enjoy food like most people do (other than a "Spicy
Cha Cha Mix" that I've discovered!) and I eat simply to maintain life.
When I do eat I eat only until I feel "not hungry" instead of when I
feel full. Eating bores me and I'd rather do other things with my time.
Many people I've met who are hypo feel the same way. Eating for us is
almost as difficult as exercising is for others and you have to look at
it that way. It is a chore because we all know that if you don't eat
then your metabolism slows way down, which we definitely don't need.
But to keep from writing a book.. :-) Two different things have worked
for me in the past. Body for Life (you can get the book at the
bookstore or library). It is a fairly rigorous exercise regimen, which
you may not be able to do with your limitations, in addition to an
eating plan that balances carbs and protein. I lost 25 pounds in 4
weeks and then just sort of fell off the wagon after September 11th and
never got back on because I got pregnant and didn't have time to hit the
gym 5 days a week. The Atkins Diet (read his book before starting!) has
also done wonders for me. My husband and I have both lost about 20
pounds in the last month without any exercise. I'm sure that I'll lose
much more when I start exercising and quit cheating (yes, I lost 20
pounds while cheating very badly!). Exercise is key with hypothyroidism
because it helps jump start our metabolism, which is our biggest weight
loss obstacle. Just give me a yell if you have any more questions.

Currently I'm studying to become a nutritionist and personal trainer, so
hopefully some of my advice can help you.
It's good to hear that you have an exercise bike and you use it. One of the main
things in losing weight is cardiovascular exercise. Most people just don't get
enough of it. It's what's going to melt the fat off of you (only if you eat
correctly, though). You can weight train to your heart's desire, but you won't
see the muscle unless you burn the fat
ontop. Also, it's important to do cardio every day to help your sluggish system
that hypo causes. After you get your heart rate up exercising, you continue to
burn even afterwards. It will help move your slow metabolism and may even help
with other things hypo causes, such as poor circulation.
I highly suggest you try to do a cardio workout 6 days a week. If you're like me
and have a problem with stamina and don't feel like you can do a solid hour, try
for two thirty minute sessions each day. You won't believe how much better you
will feel in the morning if you start your day off with some exercise. Just
remember to stretch before and after!
Also, be sure to get your heart rate up. Push yourself a little, but not too
much. You want to break a sweat, but not have a heart attack. Also remember
another important thing about your heart - if you're riding your bike really
intensely, and you come to the end of your work out, DO NOT just stop! It's very
dangerous to make your body go from a fast
heart rate to nothing. A famous athlete died because of this mistake. I would
suggest that you do a 30 minute session on your exercise bike with the first 5
minutes as a moderate paced warm up, 20 minutes really working your heart at a
good intense rate, and the last 5 minutes slowing everything down gradually.
Even if you can just do 30 minutes in the
morning, that's better than nothing. But I would suggest if you're serious about
losing the weight and can find the time in your day, do 30 minutes in the
morning and another 30 in the afternoon or evening. Lastly, remember to drink
lots of water before and afterwards!
For diet, as I have found for myself, low carb is the way to go. But that
doesn't mean cutting out carbs all together! I threw my own body into a bad
stage last year and my period even completely stopped because I wasn't eating
enough carbs. You do want some in your body each day, just make sure it's the
right kind. Here are some things I suggest you take
to heart:
-Make water your #1 drink. If you're a heavy coffee or soda drinker, limit
yourself to one can or cup a day. If your body can handle it (I get headaches
from artificial sweeteners) go for diet if you can't give up the caffeine. You
should be drinking about a half a gallon of water a day if you're exercising.
-Take all "white" food out of your diet. This means no white sugar, flour,
pasta, potatoes or rice.
-Take all sugar out of your diet, including white, brown, ect. And even limit
your fruit intake. To a couple pieces a day.
-Start eating more vegetables and make them your source for carbohydrates. Like
I said, you need SOME carbs in your body.
-Get rid of as many starchy foods in your diet as possible. If you insist on
having some pasta or rice once in a while, go for the healthy kind - brown and
wheat everything. It's not hard to find, and it tastes just as good. You'll just
have to get use to making your own food once in a while because McDonalds
doesn't offer whole wheat bread.
-Eat lots of lean meat, but don't be afraid of fat!
-Try to add fish to your diet if you don't eat it regularly already. Go to the
market and try a new kind every week. It's VERY good if you can eat a filet once
a week, especially for your thyroid.
-If you don't already, be sure to take a multivitamin daily, and you may want to
also check out Vitamin C. I hate 1,000 mg everyday along with my other stuff.
-Keep a food journal so you can look back on what you ate when, how you felt,
and how your body acted. You should be able to see a link between heavy, starchy
carbs such as bread, pasta, rice, ect and weight gain as well as bloating. I
know myself that I look like I'm three months pregnant whenever I eat a bowl of
pasta - which does not look good on a 17
year old!
One last tip for the exercising - get yourself a walkman or portable cd player
if you can't blast a stereo while riding your bike. Music makes exercise SO much
more enjoyable. I couldn't live without it.
You can e-mail me privately if you have any questions or comments about anything
I've said so that we don't spam the list : )
I hope I don't sound to preachy about this stuff. I just know what it's like to
feel like your body is against you.
-Bunny

People with hypothyroidism usually are not like other overweight people
in that they are usually not overeaters or have other eating issues such
as eating mostly junk or fatty foods. Unfortunately, many of us eat
very little and are still unable to lose. I eat only when I'm starving.
I just have no desire to eat. As I explained to my husband earlier, I
don't necessarily enjoy food like most people do (other than a "Spicy
Cha Cha Mix" that I've discovered!) and I eat simply to maintain life.
When I do eat I eat only until I feel "not hungry" instead of when I
feel full. Eating bores me and I'd rather do other things with my time.
Many people I've met who are hypo feel the same way. Eating for us is
almost as difficult as exercising is for others and you have to look at
it that way. It is a chore because we all know that if you don't eat
then your metabolism slows way down, which we definitely don't need.
But to keep from writing a book.. :-) Two different things have worked
for me in the past. Body for Life (you can get the book at the
bookstore or library). It is a fairly rigorous exercise regimen, which
you may not be able to do with your limitations, in addition to an
eating plan that balances carbs and protein. I lost 25 pounds in 4
weeks and then just sort of fell off the wagon after September 11th and
never got back on because I got pregnant and didn't have time to hit the
gym 5 days a week. The Atkins Diet (read his book before starting!) has
also done wonders for me. My husband and I have both lost about 20
pounds in the last month without any exercise. I'm sure that I'll lose
much more when I start exercising and quit cheating (yes, I lost 20
pounds while cheating very badly!). Exercise is key with hypothyroidism
because it helps jump start our metabolism, which is our biggest weight
loss obstacle. Just give me a yell if you have any more questions.

I get headaches when my TSH is way too high or too low. That's how I
know my meds are off. And just taking a pill will not make you lose the
weight. You still have to work very hard at it. Seven years after I
gained 90 pounds and six years after I was diagnosed and started meds
I'm still trying to lose. Low carb diets and lots of exercise are the
only way I can lose ANYTHING!

Beth have you tried compounding progesterone in pills or cream? I know
that works ok with me. But I also can't tolerate much of it. I will
never be able to take a lot of this the way I would want to.
Anita

Here's the link to the account of a Brazilian schizophrenic woman who healed
herself using an intensive process of counseling and EFT. It's very long.
Also, understand the therapist who wrote the account is not a native English
speaker. I think it's inspirational!
<A
HREF="http://www.emofree.com/cases/schizophrenia2.htm"
ses/schizophrenia2.htm</A
Linda

Charmaine,
I forgot to tell you, in that article I just sent, you have to select the
link to "summary and table" to find out some really cool stuff about how this
doc was able to get some adjustments for his bipolar patients using a T3/T4
combo medicine. The actual link to that page is:
<A
HREF="http://www.psycheducation.org/thyroid/data.htm"
org/thyroid/data.htm</A
Linda

In a message dated 2/14/2003 12:21:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
charmainejensen@... writes:
Charmaine,
I'm in the US--Los Angeles.
L.

I am wondering does anybody in this group experience regular headaches and/or
migraines because of their hypothyroidism.
Also after you first started the hormone replacement pill -- how long thereafter
did it take to finally lose the weight gained?
Thanks,
Charmaine

Jenelle, I also lost all of my pregnancy weight. All 45 pounds in 2
weeks! But the breastfeeding made me so hungry that I gained another
ten. Actually, as soon as I quit breastfeeding my appetite went back to
normal and I started a low-carb diet and the weight started coming off
very quickly. My husband jokes that I need to just stay pregnant or
nursing so I can feel good for the rest of my life.

Michelle writes:
"I lowered my meds a little and felt absolutely wonderful until I quit
breastfeeding my daughter a few months ago. It seems like my symptoms
returned almost overnight, but 10 times worse than they had ever been before.
I'm like a walking zombie, dry skin, hair, cold all the time, no memory or
concentration, no appetite but I
can't lose weight and I haven't had a period since September 2001 (my
daughter was born June 2002)."
I can't help with advice, but wanted to thank you for posting this because
I've not yet read of other women with similar experiences. The best I felt
was during breast feeding. I lost my pregnancy weight plus 40 lbs and had
tons of energy. The week I weaned the first child I felt terrible and gained
10 lbs. Within a few months I'd gained 50 lbs even though I exercised daily.
It was a similar scenario after weaning my second child and I've not felt
"great" since.
Thanks again for sharing and good luck!
Jenelle

hello - welcome..... well the jumping around of the TSH makes me think of
Hashimoto's, but that's me. To find a good doctor, go to
http://www.thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/bldoc1.htm. Thyroid.about.com
is a good website for general thyroid info as well. Hope that helps :)
Karen

Jenelle,
do you know how often children should be tested. My baby is 4 months old.
You sparked my curiosity - It's definitely something I should be thinking
about.
Karen

First of all, I believe that I am completely and totally screwed up and
hope that you guys can offer some insight. I've read everything I can
get my hands on about hypo and I still can't make sense of what's
happening to me. I was first diagnosed with hypothyroidism in '97. At
the time, my TSH was 7.5. Started off with 25mcg of synthroid and have
slowly progressed through the years to a max of 200mcg. Right now I'm
trying 150 because my TSH was 10 last week and I was taking 125. While
I was pregnant last year I almost miscarried my daughter when my TSH
dropped to 0.035. I lowered my meds a little and felt absolutely
wonderful until I quit breastfeeding my daughter a few months ago. It
seems like my symptoms returned almost overnight, but 10 times worse
than they had ever been before. I'm like a walking zombie, dry skin,
hair, cold all the time, no memory or concentration, no appetite but I
can't lose weight and I haven't had a period since September 2001 (my
daughter was born June 2002). I don't understand why 200 mcg of
Synthroid will work for me for a while and then make me hyper and then
after I drop to 125 I eventually go hypo again. Also, I was reading in
the archives where many of you have discussed progesterone deficiency.
I spent 4 years and many thousands of dollars on fertility drugs and
treatments until my doctor finally took my advice and gave me
progesterone after my treatment. I got pregnant the first time I used
progesterone and had to increase the progesterone after six weeks
because I was starting to miscarry. Bloodwork never showed that I had a
progesterone deficiency, but it was obvious that I did. Is there a way
to fix this? I would guess that this is why I haven't had a period. I
would like to figure out what's going on because we'd like to start
trying for our second child ASAP. Where can I find a doctor who really
knows what they're doing when it comes to thyroid issues? My doc is
great, but she just finished her residency and doesn't have much "hands
on" experience with thyroid problems other than those who are slightly
hypo and respond easily to meds. I need help!

In a message dated 2/18/2003 9:38:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jcalla5152@... writes:
Dear Jenelle,
I recognize those feelings, too. Forturnately, WTS is reversible in many
people. So, with prompt treatment, your kids could start to do well, if the
diagnosis applies to them. And you could do well, too! Sounds like the
person you found on the WTS list is a Nurse Practitioner. They usually work
under the supervision of an MD and can write for medicines under the doc's
signature. This could be a very good thing!
Good luck,
Linda in LA

Hi there,
Joined this group a couple days ago. I don't even know where to begin my thyroid
story...it's always been in my family, both sides. When I look back, I'm pretty
sure I was bothered with symptoms since childhood. Developed Vitiligo when I was
17...did this alert my doctor into thinking a thyroid problem was there?
Irregular periods...fatigue etc.
Spent all my life being tired/stiff etc etc. Was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in
1991. In the back of my mind, I was positive all my health concerns were due, at
least in part, to a thyroid problem.
I was tired of my family doctor saying everything that was wrong with me was due
to menopause. If I'd have heard "It's just that time in your life dear" one more
time, I was going to scream. She wouldn't listen to the fact that thyroid
troubles run rampant in my family.
A couple years ago I booked myself into a clinic, five hours from home. I
figured I was on my last legs and had to do something. I was sick and tired of
being sick and tired. After a simple blood test and thyroid scan, it was found
that I had Grave's Disease! Can't tell you how relieved I was...yet how angry I
was at all the drs I'd seen over the years. The dr at the clinic told me that if
I had gone undiagnosed much longer, I would be dead.
Because I was 50 years old and had no thought of more children :) they decided
to give me the Radioactive Iodine Treatment. Three months later I was back for a
blood test and am now on Synthroid. Still have my days when my energy levels
aren't what I would like, but overall my life has been given back to me.
Fibromyalgia symptoms have decreased immensely also.
Because of the undiagnosed Graves for so many years, I now am sitting on the
borderline for osteoporosis and have to take lots of cal/mag/VitD and have a
bone density scan every year. Grave's also affects the heart and kidneys, so
tests for problems in those areas are also run regularly.
I've also started the Natural Progesterone cream...can't purchase the "real"
stuff up here in Canada, so I order it from the States. I'm taking it for the
affects it has on our bones. Need all the help I can get.
So, that's my story. I'm positive I was hypo when much younger. Don't know when
it changed to hyper...but now am back to hypo. I know I didn't develop it in the
"normal" way that most people do, but it's still hypo. I look forward to reading
everyone's stories. Sorry for being so long winded. I could go on and on about
this LOL!
Take care...Val

Linda in LA writes:
Thank you so much Linda! Its a great web site and prompted me to start the
temperature check at home (so far it's low). I found a provider on that web
site who is only about 1 1/2 hours from me so I'll contact her. She is listed
as an ARNP, not sure what that means.
I called my doctor yesterday and asked for more info on my lasts tests. I've
only had TSH tests, so I had full thyroid testing and antibody testing
yesterday. In light of my son's diagnosis, our pediatrician will test my
daughter as she is slow in developing also.
Are there others on this list who have children with hypothyroidism? Must
admit I'm struggling with a great deal of guilt and sadness that I've given
it to my children. I feel I trusted the wrong doctors and wish I'd been more
aggressive about my suspicions during pregnancies.
Jenelle

Now, that is interesting. I wish I could take progesterone. I have
been tested low with saliva and blood tests, and on computerized
biofeedback but I cannot take the stuff.
Beth

Beth/Gracia,
I too just recently went to a new doctor who appears to be into
alternative healing instead of traditional medicine. I'm not sure if
he would be a natureopath, or not, BUT he does prescribe Armour and
he believes it is better for autoimmune thyroid sufferers as I am
myself. I have to say i'm a little hesitant to change as I had the
roller coaster ride one must do to decide yes, it's good or no, it's
bad as I'm also pregnant. I've only been on it for 3 days so far (
hence the hesitation...) and haven't really noticed a difference yet.
Does everyone have to take progesterone if they are on Armour or is
this just an individualized thing?
Thanks,
Renee P

Progesterone deficiency (in men as well as women) is often found with
hypothyroidism. I have read that it might even be a cause of autoimmune
hypo. I don't know! I think Armour is just wonderful, but you need the
right dose (enough), and if you don't feel great on it, then progesterone
would be something to look at. also progesterone prevents miscarriage and
premature birth.
Gracia

In a message dated 2/16/2003 10:31:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jcalla5152@... writes:
Dear Jenelle,
Sad to hear of yet another case of patient discrimination based on doctor's
ignorance! I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I think fifty years
from now, treatment for subclinical hypothyroidism (basing diagnosis and
treatment on your symptoms, not your blood test numbers) will be another
standard for treating obvious hypothyroid patients who don't fit the standard
pattern. For more information or listings for docs who treat this way now,
check out <A HREF="www.wilsonssyndrome.com"
under the patient area for the doc
referrals. Even if you don't have Wilson's Syndrome, their doctors are more
skilled in treating people, not numbers. You might find someone kind an
caring and knowlegable right near you!
Good luck and let us know how you're doing,
Linda in LA

In a message dated 2/17/2003 7:37:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
n2dance@... writes:
Dear Beth,
Maybe it's the way he's getting it covered for you. I just had my insurance
company tell me they are no longer covering the timed release T3 for me
because it's "not approved by the FDA!" :(
Linda

Linda wrote
This has been instinctually what I 'think' I need. Still my dr. has me
take a small dose of Unithroid along with the time-release T3, and I'm
not really sure what the purpose is of that. I am thinking more clearly
and am able to concentrate, but I'm still dragging.
For the last week or so I have also been taking a 300 mg dose of 5-htp
at bedtime. While I'm still not sleeping through the night, I'm getting
a little relief from the depression (life has not been the same since I
went off the zoloft). I was initially angry with my doc for prescribing
this, it was really expensive but believe it or not, my insurance
covered it. On my claim receipt, it listed the timed-release T3 and the
5-htp as 'narcotics'. Huh??
Beth

Hello everyone!
I just joined the list and wanted to introduce myself. I'm Jenelle from NH
and my 15-year-old son was diagnosed with hypothyroidism yesterday. He's also
anemic and has high cholesterol. He hasn't grown much in height the past 2
years, has gained a lot of weight, and hasn't hit puberty yet. I found this
list while researching hypothyroidism online and read some of the back logs.
I am so grateful to all of you who generously share your experiences and
advice on this forum, I've already learned a great deal.
In addition to researching for my son, I'm looking for information for
myself. I have been tested twice over the past few years for thyroid problems
but the test results said "normal." Getting the normal results didn't take
away my problems (dry skin, lump in the throat, lack of energy, weight gain,
kidney stones, being cold all the time, poor memory, miscarriages, toxemia
during pregnancies, etc.) but it has made me unenthusiastic about visiting my
doctor. I'm tired of being told it's all in my head and that my weight gain
is simply due to not pushing away from the table. I do believe I have
hypothyroidism, and after reading a file on this web site from Earl Conroy
(Why Thyroid Problems Occur) I'm quite discouraged that I've not been taken
seriously by my doctor. However, I am relieved my son has a good doctor.
Again, I appreciate this forum and welcome all advice.
Sincerely,
Jenelle

AllI can tell you is that I know of many people with autoimmune, myself
included, taking Armour. I think the molecules of synthetic would be the
same as natural; Armour just has other hormones in it. The right amounts of
progesterone and Armour make the difference. If your experience was
different, well that's OK too.
Here's a quote from another list (NaturalAlternatives to HRT)
got their progesterone level up they were able to wean off SSRIs such as
Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, Seraphem (which is really Prozac) etc. Once they get
their progesterone level up, life is wonderful again and they ride off into
that
*progesterone sunset*.
Gracia

Cindy, I will be taking both synthroid and cytomel. What dosage of
synthroid were you taking before going to just cytomel?
Cheryl

Maybe I should clarify... I tried armour before it was discovered that
the cause of my hypo was hashimotos... I did not feel well, also have
tried several different forms of natural progesterone, and did not feel
well on it.
I'm not trying to perpetrate a myth, I have tried both and did not do
well. My naturopath told me that armour would not have been appropriate
for me because I have autoimmune thyroiditis. I was wondering if anyone
had read, heard, or been advised of the same. I am aware of the drug
industry's control over our medical system, but the advising physician
was an armour-prescribing naturopath.
I didn't mean to imply that armour isn't appropriate for everyone.
Obviously it helps a lot of people. Unfortunately I don't happen to be
one of them, and logically, my dr's explanation why made sense to me.
Beth

I agree with both of you. I'm getting so that I cannot stand to be a
part of certain websites now because of the "drug corporation
brainwashing" that goes on.
Joe

Penny, Effexor is only going to mask the hot flashes. Once you get your
progesterone level up naturally, not chemically, your hot flashes should
subside. Conventional doctors are so quick to perscribe drugs like Effexor =
rather then check a woman's progesterone level first, SAD but true. Also,
taking 400 IUs of a good Vitamin E (d-alpha) twice a day also helps
tremendously with hot flashes and night sweats.
The following will explain the importance of using a good progesterone
cream.
Vickie Q.
Benefits & Safety Of Using Progesterone Cream
While natural progesterone has been referred to as a progestin
because it maintains the lining of the uterus, it is technically
separate and totally different from synthetic progestins. In
addition, natural progesterone provides a number of biological
actions which progestins do not. Some additional benefits
reported with the use of natural progesterone include:
- reduces joint pain and swelling
- enhances skin moisture
- fades liver spots
- heals wounds faster
- reduces yeast infections
- supports the immune system
- protects against the side effects of unopposed estrogen
- tranquilizes
- promotes sleep
Therapeutic Applications of Natural Progesterone
In fact, there are many therapeutic uses for progesterone that
promote health and well-being. Here is a short list of some of
those benefits:
- helps to prevent osteoporosis, the formation of fibrocystic breasts,
and breast cancer
- normalizes zinc and copper levels and maintains the secretory
endometrium
- contributes to regulating the thyroid gland and blood clotting
mechanisms
- acts as an antidepressant and precursor to corticosterones
- necessary for the proper production of adrenal hormones
- works to stabilize blood sugar and prevent salt retention
- enhances libido and thermogenesis (the burning of fat)
- protects the uterus and breasts from malignancies
- aids the survival and development of the fetus
- has a natural diuretic action
- is very hydrating to the skin in transdermal form
Safety of Natural Progesterone
Natural progesterone is one of the safest supplements
available. In contrast to synthetic progestins, it has little or not
side effects. Some women may experience an estrogen reaction
reaction upon first introducing natural progesterone to their
system, and in these cases, estrogen-related symptoms may
temporarily become worse. If this occurs, natural progesterone
should be continued or dosages adjusted until hormonal
balance is achieved. Incidental spotting between periods also
may occur but is usually resolved within three to five cycles. The
use of natural progesterone has not been linked to any form of
human cancers.
There is no known interference or alteration from combining
natural progesterone with other drugs. No adverse effects of
natural progesterone have been reported on the developing
fetus of pregnant women, unlike its synthetic counterparts,
however its use in pregnant or nursing mothers has not been
clinically documented.
Article from, The Natural and Safe Way to Hormonal Balance, by
Rita Elkins M.H.

Good idea, Deneen,
There's a much more interestingand thorough article about the metabolic effects
of insulin that's an edited version of a lecture given by Dr. Rosedale on
Mercola's site. That one's very good.
http://mercola.com/2001/jul/14/insulin.htm
Bless you with the new eating plan. half.com has the William Wolcott, Author,
The Metabolic Typing Diet for $10 something plus shipping. might try
www.addall.com it's the best book search I've found out there.
ISBN: 0-76790-5644
SaraLou

Hello,
I have tried progesterone, but have found that it magnifies my
depression, and I usually gain weight on it. I was told that sometimes
we can have the opposite reaction than what is expected, I usually stay
away from progesterone now.
Also, when I was diagnosed with Hashimotos, I was told never to take
armour, or any other 'glandulars', that it would aggravate the thyroid
and increase antibody activity. I was also told that it was pointless
to treat the thyroid if the adrenals were exhausted, that it would just
be making a bad situation worse.
Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on these comments? I've
been told and read so many different things, I'm trying to sort it all out.
Beth

We've all been told a lot of horse puckey.
All I can say is that Armour (with T3) plus progesterone would probably work
great for you. There are so many myths about Armour, I guess you would just
have to try it for yourself. The myths seem to be around drugs that can't
be patented.
Gracia

Does anyone know what kind of "incentive" doctors get from the drug
companies when they prescribe certain drugs to their patients? My
doctor (endocronologist) joked that they are like drug pushers at
the playground, when he was encouraging me to take glucophage
(metformin). He seems really insistent that I take this medication
and I'm not a diabetic, just have high insulin levels (27).

Deneen, This is why docs don't prescribe Armour. Docs will prescribe it when
we demand it! Power to the patient.
This is the question most frequently asked of Dr. Lee during his more
than 30 years of active clinical practice. To quote from Dr.
Lee: "The medical-industrial complex refers to the close knit
association of organized medicine with the pharmaceutical
manufacturers and governmental medical regulatory agencies... The
system taken together is neither necessarily corrupt nor evil, but,
like any human agency, is subject to the frailties and faults of
humankind. Medical research is dependent on the billions of dollars
of grants from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the
private pharmaceutical industry. The two are closely interlocked.
Any given pharmaceutical company, like any private enterprise, must
make a profit to stay alive. Profit comes from the sales of patent
medicines. The system is not interested in natural (non-patentable)
medicines, regardless of their potential health benefits. Thus the
flow of research funding does not extend to products which cannot be
patented.
Few people know that the definition of malpractice hinges on whether
or not the practice is common among one's medical peers and has
little (usually nothing) to do with whether the practice is
beneficial or not. A doctor willing to study, to learn the ins and
outs of an alternative medical therapy, and to put what he has
learned into practice in helping patients is potentially exposing
himself to serious charges of malpractice.
But what does all this have to do with natural progesterone? The
answer is quite simple, really. Ample medical research regarding
progesterone was carried on from the 1940's through the 1960's, and
amply reported in mainline, recognized medical literature. Since the
early 1970's, however, medical research has become much more
expensive and the grants subsidizing progesterone research, (or any
unpatentable medicine or treatment technique), have dried up and been
blown away by the contemporary trade winds of synthetic drugs,
particularly the progestins. The potential market for patentable
progestins is vast-- contraceptive pills, irregular menses,
osteoporosis--literally every woman through the age of puberty on is
a target for a sale. Do you think the prevailing powers wish to see
this lucrative market left to an over-the-counter natural product not
in the hands of physician prescribers and not controlled by the
pharmaceutical industry?
Thus, when he (the physician) hears of the use of natural
progesterone, he wonders why none of his associates know about it. If
it is not commonly know, 'it must in some way be false and/or
unapproved.' Having given lectures on the role and medical uses of
natural progesterone, I have observed numerous instances wherein
perfectly fine physicians will inquire about obtaining product for
use by their wives or mother-in-law but not for their patients. What
can account for such behavior by professionals? I suspect that it is
fear of alienation from the flock that is paramount in their minds.
If progestins were the equivalent of natural progesterone in effect
and safety, the argument would be moot. But progestins are not the
equivalent of natural progesterone and never will be."
Dr. John R. Lee, CA, USA

I would seriously question using a T4 only medicine on a person with NO
thyroid gland, since the thyroid gland makes other hormones besides T4.
(T3, T2, T1, T0, calcitonen) Look at
www.amourthyroid.com
www.thyroid.about.com
Gracia

I think you would benefit even more from taking Armour, which has T4, T3,
T2, T1 and calcitonen (fixes calcium to bone). Most docs use synthetics
because of aggressive drug company marketing.
Gracia

My 3-year-old daughter was born without a tyroid gland. She has
been on synthroid since she was a week old. She has blood tests
every few months. Her dosage has only been changed twice. Most
recently today. Since she is only 3, I have trouble knowing when I
should be concerned about getting her tested. Her doctor told me
that her dose probably needed to be upped a couple of months ago. I
feel bad because I didn't know!! Can anyone help me out so that I
know what to look for? She has been irratable lately, but I chalked
that up to her being 3. I have been doing this pretty much blind
for the last 3 years, and I don't want to do it blind anymore. I
need to be informed, and what the doctor says just doesn't make all
that much sense to me. I don't know anyone else with this
condition. I have heard of a few people who have a low thyroid, but
not NO thyroid. If anyone can help me out, I want to thank you in
advance.

I have been on synthroid for about 8 years now. I found out I had a
thyroid problem when I suffered and ectopic pregnancy and a
miscarriage. I think my regular doctor was giving me too high of a
dosage. I was still tired all the time, overweight, thin hair and
very cold. I now go to an endocronologist, and he currently has me
on .088 synthroid. I still am battling my weight, I weighed in at
202 yesterday and I should weigh around 140 for my height. Anyway,
he has been pushing me to take glucophage because my insulin levels
were high (27). I worry about taking that because of the possible
side effects. So, he gave me a prescription yesterday for cytomel.
I was wondering who else might be taking both synthroid and cytomel
and what difference it made.

To all,
Happy Heart Day! Here's a link to an interesting article from Mary Shomon's
latest e-letter. It's an interview with a cardiologist about the connection
between your heart and your thyroid. John, you might find some good info in
there regarding the questions you were asking recently about T3 and the
heart!
I really liked what he had to say about CoQ10; I think I'm going to try some.
Still don't understand why docs keep recommending soy the way he does--maybe
they've never experienced the pain it causes in my neck, liver and eyes?
Anyway--here's the link:
<A
HREF="http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa021201a.htm"
t.com/library/weekly/aa021201a.htm</A
Enjoy!
Linda in LA

Hear is a thought ,could it be our adreanal function that is causing
the rages ? I know that our adreanals control our flight/fight
response .Also that I have personaly had panic attacks accompany the
rage , not at the same time exactly ! I thought it might be adreanal
exaustion related to my thyroid condtion , although i havent talked
to the dr about it yet . Andrea

I experience these same types of outbursts that I cannot explain. It has ruined
countless relationships...and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I scare
my current boyfriend away. I used to blame it on PMS but now it seems to occur
on a regular basis, sometimes I can control it, other times I can't. I really
don't feel like I have a mental illness or anything like that, I feel like it's
hormones or something I haven't figured out. I have an appt. this month with a
new OB/GYN and I'm hoping she will do some new tests besides the thyroid tests.
I have been taking 1 and 1/2 grains of Armour and using some Progesterone Cream
that someone here recommended. It seems to help but not nearly enough. Any
suggestions as to what I should ask her to test me for? Thanks.
Melanie
Beth Elliott <n2dance@...
I also have this, I don't know if I would say I don't know what I'm
doing until it's too late, but I know when it's happening, I truly am
feeling the feelings that are exploding all over the place out of me,
but a little voice inside my head is saying, this isn't the big deal
you're making out of it.
I wouldn't say it's completely physical, but I am very careful to have
my outbursts at home. I don't know what is a reasonable reaction and
what isn't anymore. I have one acquaintance whom I feel is downright
abusive but whenever I react she says she's sick of me being so
oversensitive all the time. I don't know who's right, I suspect it's a
little of both but I don't know where the line is because I know I'm a
little off.
I call it PMS, it never occurred to me that it could be pituitary
related. My naturopath does computerized biomedical feedback which
indicated my pituitary gland is the problem, not the thyroid. What to
do about it though? She gave me a cream called ProGen to strengthen the
pituitary. I haven't noticed much of a difference in how I feel from
it. Sometimes when I start new things, nothing happens, then the
doctors tell me if their program is not working then it's MY fault.
Beth

Hello,
I also have this, I don't know if I would say I don't know what I'm
doing until it's too late, but I know when it's happening, I truly am
feeling the feelings that are exploding all over the place out of me,
but a little voice inside my head is saying, this isn't the big deal
you're making out of it.
I wouldn't say it's completely physical, but I am very careful to have
my outbursts at home. I don't know what is a reasonable reaction and
what isn't anymore. I have one acquaintance whom I feel is downright
abusive but whenever I react she says she's sick of me being so
oversensitive all the time. I don't know who's right, I suspect it's a
little of both but I don't know where the line is because I know I'm a
little off.
I call it PMS, it never occurred to me that it could be pituitary
related. My naturopath does computerized biomedical feedback which
indicated my pituitary gland is the problem, not the thyroid. What to
do about it though? She gave me a cream called ProGen to strengthen the
pituitary. I haven't noticed much of a difference in how I feel from
it. Sometimes when I start new things, nothing happens, then the
doctors tell me if their program is not working then it's MY fault.
Beth

Here is a very interesting article by Dr.Mercola about insulin.It is
VERY long but really informative.We know that people with hypothyroidism
do not use insulin as "normal" people and this is part of the problem
with the weight loss issue.
Deneen:)

Sara Lou and everyone, I just want to mention that if you're not sure if
you're allergic to pollen in general, find out before you take bee pollen.
I almost died of an allergic reaction to it a little over a year ago and I
only had 1/4 teaspoon. It was the scariest thing of my life b/c I wasn't
able to breath, but thankfully by that time, I was getting looked at for it.
Best,
Karen

Yep. Could stand outside myself (figuratively) and watch me being irrational
about something that would never make a dent in who I am on a good day, and
have no ability to quit screaming or crying. Taking natural B vitamins fixed
it. I started with a few grains of bee pollen and moved into supplements. With
pituitary...consider spending some daily morning sun time (5-25 minutes yeah
right ;-) for a week or two and see how things change. No filters like car,
window or eye glass. SaraLou

Hi, thank you. What do you take for your T# and how long did it take
for you to start feeling better?

Charmaine and others in this wonderful group...
My doc did not refer me to a nutritionist but I sensed something was wrong so I
went on my own. Basically, the nutritionist said to increase protein and
decrease carbs. I have done so and feel 90% better (the other 10% is because I
cheat sometimes!) It took about 1 week to feel different i.e. more energy (no
need for naps), significant decrease in muscle/joint pain, no more IBS symptoms
and I'm actually losing weight finally! Incidentally, I am a vegetarian and eat
soy. I know, I know soy is a goitrogenic but everyone's body works
differently...
At the same time I insisted on starting Armour. My doc started me on a very low
dose so I'm supplementing with Levoxyl. Also, my doc would not prescribe T3 so
(shame on me) I ordered it myself and started taking it. What a difference! Now,
I know this is a big no-no and I'm not suggesting people should not listen to
their doctors but after 2 years of feeling like the walking dead I'm finally
feeling good. Also, I work with doctors and I have learned that 1) doctors don't
know everything and OFTEN make mistakes 2) a lot of what (most) doctors know is
from med school and is outdated and 3) my health is ultimately my
responsibility.
Anyway, I hope I did not offend anyone with my post. I have learned so much from
all of you!
Kris

TSH is a poor guide for treatment but we and docs have been conditioned to
think it is useful. However, I have read that a TSH of 1 is desireable for
getting pregnant. You can get your own tests done at
www.healthcheckusa.com Be sure to get FREE T3 and FREE T4, or have doc order
these tests. You might want to be on a med that includes T3 when pregnant.
Gracia

In a message dated 2/12/2003 9:33:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
aisadora@... writes:
Dear Andrea,
As I understand it, some foods that are goitrogens like the brassica
vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower) and millet actually cause thyroid
enlargement and formation of goiter. These foods were used before the advent
of thyroid drugs to suppress production of thyroid hormone in cases of
hyperthyroidism. As far as products with phystoestrogens in them like soy
and flax, I understand that since estrogen and thyroid hormone are
antagonists in the body, they compete for the same cell site receptors for
use in the body. When you have an overabundance of estrogen in the body from
soy, for example, or flax or other exogenous estrogenic supplementation
estrogen overwhelms the cell receptor sites and very little thyroid hormone
can get through to the cells to be used in the body. so, you have two
different actions of thyroid suppression that I am aware of. Maybe there are
others.
Linda in LA

I asked this before but dont think I got an answer and it was a
while ago . Do goitrogens interfere with the absorbtion of our meds.
As in the T4 to T3 conversion ? Does anyone know ? Andrea

I'm forwarding this to you.... this was posted by lil2du@... about a
month ago.
Also, autoimmune thyroiditis is hashimoto's disease :)

I've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism for about a year now. I take 50 mcg
dose of levoxyl. I recently had my levels checked again (TSH 3.849) and my
free T4 checked for the first time (1.49). When I was diagnosed I think my TSH
was around 14. I have read a lot about TSH levels and how some think they
should never be higher than 1. I'm just confused. I also have no idea what the
free T4 level should be or if mine is good. The nurse said that my dr. thought
everything looked like it was functioning well. I feel pretty good but I wonder
if I should be taking a higher dose of levoxyl? I know I need to ask my dr these
questions but he obviously thinks things are